Credo's for the non Lemmings

[shubla]

I dont see alts being created for different credos as a problem if they had legacy belief style system.
If somebody wants to create alts, let him create them.
If somebody is too lazy to make alts, he could just join a village where people fulfill each other.
If somebody wants to hermit solo, he should just trade for things and specialize in one field.

Being jack of all trades is not really required, except for maybe a small, small minority of players who are on top.

[Jalpha]

Exactly. People will always alt no matter what. Credos are so insignificant an effect on alting as to be irrelevant.

If youwant a big reward you should have to pay a big price.

The real problem with credos is quests. Does anyone disagree with that statement?

[Vigilance]

The real problem with credos is quests. Does anyone disagree with that statement?

Isn't that sort of what this thread is more or less about? That was what Massa's (merged in to this one) thread was about.

[jorb]

I haven't done much with credos at all, mostly because I feel quests in general have been poorly implemented.

How so?

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

The real problem with credos is quests. Does anyone disagree with that statement?

Yes, I disagree. Can you explain how quests are a problem? I've found myself enjoying doing the quests, and consider them an acceptable way to advance Credos. I'm open to other interpretations that don't include "They're so long and grindy/boring though!". I mean, what game did you think you were playing? Of course they're time-consuming and often difficult!

Valid (to me) complaints I've heard about quests:

1. Gemcutter Quests that require finding a specific kind of gemstone (Without a way to identify these outside of pure luck, this is an unreasonable thing).
2. Mystic Quests that require a specific experience when this is nearly impossible to do on purpose.

The only thing that I think should be required of Quests is that it should be something you can reliably do on purpose, without prior knowledge of a thing. (Like knowing the location of a Moonstone node, for instance.) I'm not concerned with how LONG it takes to do the thing, so long as it doesn't have a 'pure luck' element involved.

One could mitigate the specific gemstone problem by providing us with something like rustroot extract for finding gemstones, however.

[Gensokyo]

I haven't done much with credos at all, mostly because I feel quests in general have been poorly implemented.

How so?

Instead of the game forcing you to fight a boar naked in the middle of the night and alone with nothing but your Unarmed skills as the last Hunter quest, you're instead forced to "Eat Ant", study 3 32-hour curiosities and get tunnel vision on this icon to the point where you flat out ignore everything aside from the compass pointer and the Entrails that Regiger wants for some reason.

Instead of challenging you and acting as skill/stat checks, they're just mediocre quests that don't actually give you any sort of direct rewards until you do a huge chunk of them (and for certain ones you're pretty much going to abandon and rock back and forth a lot), so until you finish their level 5 quests, they feel incredibly wasteful and tiring.

[Granger]

How so?

Most quests might be fun the first 2-3 times one does that kind of mission but afterwards it's plain boring so, as Gensokyo described, one will simply bruteforce them (interleaved with killing the character to keep the number of quests per credo down) to get them done and out of the way so one can finally eventually start to actually play the game (in terms of doing something meaningful in the world that isn't getting ready to do something meaningful). And with this have to get this shit out of the way perspective the quests for the credos feel even more like the go into the woods to kill 10 rats so the wizard will enchant your sword (so you can slay 50 more directly afterwards) generic MMO grind that they actually are.

I think it would be more interesting if the game would give rewards for actually playing, rewards that (with time) accumulate and make the things your character does on a regular basis more easier. Possibly somewhat along the way how XP works, interaction with the world gives now and then an event in case whatever requirements, like having done other stuff done before, are met - turning the thing around from here is your TODO list of hoops to jump through to tracking what characters are doing so they can be rewarded for actually acting like they're doing something meaningful, improve in a field through actual practice in it instead of through visiting a one-off bootcamp.

Would need to be in a way that you can't min-max or brutforce (to avoid people simply setting up even bigger and more convoluted XP farms), maybe a bayes classifier put to work creatively could do that trick.

[Jalpha]

How so?

Some good points already raised above, I would run more quotes but too hard on a tablet. Gensokyo has done a lot of the work for me. The credo path is repetitive quest spam without much in the way of creative or relevant scripting or objectives. I know you're capable of better. I mean I do like some of what you've done so far but... I don't know... Quests currently lack soul.

For credos something like five landmark quests with heavily relevant scripting and objectives would be nice. Challenges more than quests. You can quest spam between them.

For quesrs in general... Let me give you an example of what kind of scenario I would expect. You approach a rock, the rock says "Ho, Hearthling. Can you do me a great boon? In an age now long forgotten, a tribe of Hearthlings like yourself would leave offerings and make sacrifices upon me to gods now long forgotten. I doubt their gods cared much for such things, but the magpies would gorge themselves on entrails and gather the shiny things for their nests.
In their joy they would sing to me and in turn this brought great joy to me as well.
Now the magpies of this age only drop smelly things upon me.
Would you make the magpies happy by drenching me in the fresh entrails of twelve boars?"

The player is given a yes/no prompt. If they choose yes they are further prompted "Oh, to do this thing for me you must not cause harm to any bird along the way. Birds talk you know."

If the player harms a bird they fail the quest. Upon successful completion of the quest a family of magpies arrives and sings a song.

Up to you if this kind of thing is worth the investment of your time.

Thusfar my experience of quests has been "Travel upteen million miles accross difficult terrain and /emote some object." "Thank you, have this q12 piece of tree bark."

There is no indication of what the possible reward will be from the quest objectives. That is bad.

Final note: nerf charisma, and nerf travel quests. People are just roading them.

[MagicManICT]

Let me give you an example of what kind of scenario I would expect. You approach a rock, the rock says "Ho, Hearthling. Can you do me a great boon? In an age now long forgotten, a tribe of Hearthlings like yourself would leave offerings and make sacrifices upon me to gods now long forgotten. I doubt their gods cared much for such things, but the magpies would gorge themselves on entrails and gather the shiny things for their nests.
In their joy they would sing to me and in turn this brought great joy to me as well.
Now the magpies of this age only drop smelly things upon me.

This is great, but how many times experiencing this before it gets old and stale? There are RPGs out there that play on this with humor, of course, but even that joke gets old and stale. What's the old saying? "Familiarity breeds contempt," I do believe it is. (At the minimum, boredom and such.)

[AntiBlitz]

perhaps the credos need a sort of "boss" tier for its quest finale, or maybe it needs "mini boss" style quests for the in between quests to level up. Tho i dont know how that would function or what you would do in some of them like Farmer....