Satiations/Hunger Make Late Game Rebuilding Unpossibru

[magisticus]

Aren't stat caps desirable? I mean, I don't think they are, but I've heard it claimed.

What changes would you like to see? Should eating be unlimited?

The fundamental reason why I'd like to see some sort of limitations on eating are...

• I don't think it's healthy if you feel that you have to grind all the time, and that time not spent grinding is time lost. This was at times a very real problem in Salem, and arguably it's a problem with quests here as they currently stand.
• I'd like to encourage/enforce some level of variance in the diet, so that it's not merely about spamming one type of thing.

Variance in diet is fine, but just now I ate 4 pieces of fish and I'm at 68% satiation for fish. I didn't even get 1 stat gain...

Quests do make you feel that you need to be constantly grinding, and I would also say that as the world goes on, that feeling is spread and amplified across the board. The problem is that not only do you feel rushed to gain FEPs, you also feel limited by the hunger and satiation bar, and you begin to feel hopeless when comparing yourself to those who have been at it for much longer than you have. This game is a like having a second job if you want to take it seriously, and demotivation towards your end goals is enough to make people throw up their hands and just say 'fuck it'

I liked stats caps, but not at a max of 230 or whatever. Stat caps at 1000 with an additional 1000 in gear bonuses was a good number for last world IMO, idk how comparable it is now, but it's still a decent marker to set before things get totally insane again. The vast majority will never reach that cap, but it's nice to have one in place.

Agree. not only that but the game has so much more to do in it than character developement, and with the character developement done you could focus on other things - or start a new character and approach it differently, either stat caps or a weekly/monthly cap on developement would be good, and I think even 500 would be ok but 1k seems a sensible number. With a period cap on developement you could then raise the cap for new characters to allow them to catch up which might allow people to join the world later on. With current satiation system you will just have to eat more food, yes you will need variety but people will eat cupboards of food at 50% feps and still gain levels.

[magisticus]

Aren't stat caps desirable? I mean, I don't think they are, but I've heard it claimed.

What changes would you like to see? Should eating be unlimited?

The fundamental reason why I'd like to see some sort of limitations on eating are...

• I don't think it's healthy if you feel that you have to grind all the time, and that time not spent grinding is time lost. This was at times a very real problem in Salem, and arguably it's a problem with quests here as they currently stand.
• I'd like to encourage/enforce some level of variance in the diet, so that it's not merely about spamming one type of thing.

I was always for stat caps, but I get that people want endless progression. I think the idea of food efficiency dropping as your stats get higher is a good idea. This means people can still grind for better stats, albeit it will be much more work after certain points. This will make it easier for new people to catch up as well. To add: I think there still needs to be a way to eat food FEPlessly, just for the means of restoring energy. It's hard to have a hard working miner and also keeping his hunger level at a decent level to gain stats.

I think the satiation idea is ok, but needs some balancing and less rng. Use that as the short term limiter on how much people can eat and for diet variance.

For your miner - eat roast hoppers, porridge, rats on sticks and jotun's morsels, you will do fine. Pour some spare porridge into your backpack and take it down the mine with you.

[Grable]

For your miner - eat roast hoppers, porridge, rats on sticks and jotun's morsels, you will do fine. Pour some spare porridge into your backpack and take it down the mine with you.

We already do that.. it still destroys your food efficacy if you do any kind of decently sized work

[Potjeh]

Well duh, of course a infinite growth model is unsustainable. IRL growth without limit is literally cancer. Haven has had this problem since day one, and will continue to lose players to it as long as infinite growth exists. It's why everyone quits until next world when they die, so Haven worlds only have decent pop for the first couple of months.

That, and infinite growth wrecks game balance, because in early world there's lots of useful content that becomes totally useless in late world due to unequal quality growth (I'm looking at you, fish) and you wind up doing just a small section of total content because it's vastly superior to other stuff. The game meta is basically figuring out what's broken and exploiting it to the max, and then the broken shit can't be fixed until next world because the people who exploited it are too far ahead and the other player need to be able to use the same exploit to catch up, and then you wind up with ridiculous stat inflation like last world.

The fact that caps led to pop drop doesn't mean that caps are bad, it means you don't have real late game content. If there was an actual functioning siege system in the game people wouldn't be quitting because they have nothing to do, but we can never have that system because destroying someone's base guarantees he'll quit the game since there's potentially infinite q grind investment in the base. Infinite growth serves to mask this lack of late game content, but that's not a good thing. If your house is visibly rotting away, just putting some plaster over it to hide the rot doesn't solve the problem.

[Mr_Bober]

I don't think this is a bad thing. Making it harder to rebuild a character late game just makes your current character be worth more.

In my opinion, characters shouldn't just be expendable. Large villages could rebuild a character in a couple of days, making his death nothing more than a bump on your way up.

You can manage satiation easily. As for hunger, just deal with the fact that if you want to stuff your char with a ton of food, that food will give you less points. It's not like you're supposed to only eat at 300% efficiency.

[Potjeh]

Yup, people should just quit when they die because it's hopeless, until only one person is left playing at which point he's declared winner of the current world and the world gets reset for the next round.

[Agame]

Yup, people should just quit when they die because it's hopeless, until only one person is left playing at which point he's declared winner of the current world and the world gets reset for the next round.

Hehehe! And then there will be at least 2 players: Me in my n-th reincarnation getting my attributes to 50 in a hurry after the n-th inheritance and the real winner searching the world to find me
Because I like playing, I like getting whatever I need then, then making investments in space, building and vehicles for what I will need later, then some new needs appear or I evolve a bit over the Q of everything around me and then they must be replaced. Work stations, material stocks, recycle bin and after it the trees, everything. And the fact I am never the best of the best does not affect me at all, it's not a reason to quit. As long as I am better today than I was a week ago (infinite growth, of course!) I am fine.

[LaserSaysPew]

Eating with present satiations reminds me of inspirationals system in salem. Same level of tedium. You either figure out several foods that you eat until the end of days(doesn't seem balanced if you look at how many foods are just left out) or you have to figure out what to eat every time and it's not only "Okay, I need int and agi now, what foods give most FEPs + most % of needed FEPs", now we add "What satiations does it count?". Previously we looked at satiations too, but we did it mostly to get bonus FEPs, to get rewarded for knowledge and additional preparation. Now we're forced to do it to avoid extra punishment. Not to avoid punishment, but only EXTRA punishment, we're punished anyway. This is just wrong.
Cooked 15 sweet beets. Not much in hafen standards, just a snack really. Ate them. My stats are low so I gained 6. My fruit satiation went from 100% to 7%. Seven fucking percent. And not only can't I eat more sweet beets, I can't eat anything that relies on fruit. Huge chunk of foods is just gone for a day.
w10 system was fine. Satiations were punishing but if you knew the mechanic, you could turn them into rewarding. Same with bonfires, additional work and preparation resulted in rewards. That's how it should be unless you come here to suffer.
And huge stat numbers could, perhaps, be fixed with pseudo stat caps. For example, 1k pseudo cap. You can raise your character further, but every stat that is higher than 1k will slowly move towards that 1k area.

[SlicingTheMoon]

-1
To solve the problem with this thread is, do not die, if you wanna go and fight then you should risk your life.
Your character wont die if you do not risk it, you do not need rage except if you are out for blood, there are plenty of ways to secure your characters.
And Falling behind? There will always be people that are stronger than you, maybe except if you are botting,

also where the heck is the idea here this is so bleak. how does one fix the system as it is?

i think i'm behind un-fucking symbel and altering hunger more-so than i am behind making satiations super trivial. i do think a lot of foods shouldnt chunk out satiations as hard as they do though.

This is more of a critique than an idea.

Satiations do lower way too fast though. It is very possible to eat 2-3 pieces of food and then be done eating that food type for the day and Haven & Drinks just doesn't seem fun to me.

Maybe eat something else? How would your body IRL feel if you only ate sausages or only cheese?
The system is not only to limit the growth of characters but also to less abuse of one type of food.
The key is to have a balanced diet.
When eating take 6 of each
Sausage, Baked goods, Cheese, Meat, Salad, Fish

[Massa]

-1
To solve the problem with this thread is, do not die, if you wanna go and fight then you should risk your life.
Your character wont die if you do not risk it, you do not need rage except if you are out for blood, there are plenty of ways to secure your characters.
And Falling behind? There will always be people that are stronger than you, maybe except if you are botting,

also where the heck is the idea here this is so bleak. how does one fix the system as it is?

i think i'm behind un-fucking symbel and altering hunger more-so than i am behind making satiations super trivial. i do think a lot of foods shouldnt chunk out satiations as hard as they do though.

This is more of a critique than an idea.

Satiations do lower way too fast though. It is very possible to eat 2-3 pieces of food and then be done eating that food type for the day and Haven & Drinks just doesn't seem fun to me.

Maybe eat something else? How would your body IRL feel if you only ate sausages or only cheese?
The system is not only to limit the growth of characters but also to less abuse of one type of food.
The key is to have a balanced diet.
When eating take 6 of each
Sausage, Baked goods, Cheese, Meat, Salad, Fish

spruce cap does't know that most of those foods only give you fucking +50 will for every fep you get