Revamping the Credo System

[Ysh]

That does sound off. Will look at that. I'm not at all opposed to adjusting particular quest rolls that can come up.

"Study 2 long ass study time curio" quests are always frustrating to get. Its not engaging or challenging just annoying.

Which is precisely what I like. I appreciate the break from the incessant grinding that they offer.

Except that there is way to circumvent this with incessant grinding by repeatedly abandon quest until get easy one. Personally, I am not much of gambling man, so I will just do quest if it is possible for me to do it. But I think probably this is not optimal strategy. For some men, knowing he employs suboptimal strategy is a great burden to his mind.

On topic has whole, I am not sure mechanism of credo acquisition is fundamentally broken. Though it seem to me that there is some illogic in quest generation system. Some quest is far, far easier than other and for objective reason beyond merely my own local condition. It is also possible to aggressively use abandons to avoid doing any harder quests at all. I will like to see some better consistency here among all players.

[LaserSaysPew]

I'm struggling to understand why do people bring up wow and eve in a conversation about hnh bots? Wow devs detect and ban bots, do they not? More bots appear, more complex and stealthier, right? Why? Because it's fucking profitable. Is it profitable to create complex undetectable bots for hnh? Will someone bother doing it in hnh without getting rl profit in return? How many players are there, is there anyone among them that is actually capable of doing it just for the sake of getting advantage in the game?
Here's a simple idea: just write "Bots are forbidden from now on!" with big fucking letters. "Everyone caught using a bot will be banned and nuked to shit." I'm sure this will stop some people from using bots.
Saying "we can't defeat botting, so if something is bottable it's just a bad game mechanic". Well, i.e. bots can play dota 2. I guess it's just a bad game design then, valve's fault for sure.

[terechgracz]

I don't need to work on mmo to know there is way to preditct if someone is bot or not. You could just extract some features from packets and train fuzzy neural network or just develop some function that calculates similarity of player's behaviour to general bot behaviour to predict if someone is bot or not. I don't know nothing about mmo production. I know some of machine learning and some game ai algorithms so i just gave you idea of developing such machine learning algorithm. I don't say it's simple because developing such algorithm takes time and lot of thought. But at least having some help from algorithm like this would allow you to wipe most bots off.
Anyways imo it would be big step forward for this game.

And in engineering no one cares if machine thinks or not as long it is black box which gives some valid answers.

And sorry for my previous loling at devs who work hard and has to hear statements like that .

"Yeah its easy just make a few neural networks to detect bots from packets"
You are really stupid if you think that is a viable solution for this game. If it was that easy, there wouldn't be bots in games like eve and wow which are heavily botted (and which also have a lot more money to develop anti-botting systems)
People would just start making private botting clients that have all kind of decoy systems in them that would make the neural network useless as it either would not detect the botters or would give many false positives.
EVEN If this was not the case, making a neural network which successfully identifies whether user is botting or not with 99.999% certainty is probably close to impossible, if not impossible.

Never said it was that easy, I said to just use some existing solution, they do exist and their description is freely aviable in internet. To make successful decoy system for neural networks you have to know that network structure or send really stupid packets which could be distinguished from normal ones, and such techniques exist too(anomaly detection). Anyways my idea was to apply some basic bot detection for helping in punishing botters not being whole solution. And I think it would be viable.

[jorb]

Never said it was that easy, I said to just use some existing solution, they do exist and their description is freely aviable in internet.

Why are there still bots in WoW and Eve? Because there are not existing solutions freely available on the internet. You are wrong.

[shubla]

That does sound off. Will look at that. I'm not at all opposed to adjusting particular quest rolls that can come up.

"Study 2 long ass study time curio" quests are always frustrating to get. Its not engaging or challenging just annoying.

Which is precisely what I like. I appreciate the break from the incessant grinding that they offer.

This.
I also like the quests with curios that you have to study, as you can finally have a break from the credo quests.

Tand such techniques exist too(anomaly detection). Anyways my idea was to apply some basic bot detection for helping in punishing botters not being whole solution. And I think it would be viable.

Neural networks are not basic bot detection.

o make successful decoy system for neural networks you have to know that network structure or send really stupid packets which could be distinguished from normal ones,

You have no idea what you are talking about.
Fooling such systems would be very, very easy.
(Such system would also be so complicated if done properly that it is basically impossible to make, currently, and probably in the future)

[Zyean]

Can we at least look at toning down the number of quests required per credo? Maybe scale number of quests per credo completed in the tier? So getting fisherman + forager + hunter = 60 quests total
Then getting say, masonry starts at 20, but then 30 quests for farming if you wanted farming as well since its of the same tier

[Field]

I'm going to push for 3 paths quests, where you choose your poison.

Link to the post with just tiny bit more detail to it.