Non-rage knockout protection should not apply vs animals

[wonder-ass]

you're telling me i can lure a bear to a nab and let the bear pall kill them for me? sweet.

[terechgracz]

With this world i thought you're finally sane but this post makes me think opposite, why should i die from OP wild beasts that i have no chance to run from, no chance of outplay without caves or boat? This is game where you develop so long and still can die in so many ways... Even with current situation I had hard time convincing my nooby village mates to start hunting with meele because they were scared of wounds, imagine when they could also die from it. Fighting is most basic element of mmorpg's, IMO if more players are able to do it then its better for the game, there aren't much people that are willing to only farm all day, and currently my village mates keep longer in this game because they still can do something in between farming and cooking.
-1

[azrid]

Sounds bad especially after we have a fairly large system of wounds for when you get KOd.
Why make people skip the wound system by killing them?
I think if you want KO by animals to be harsher add more harsher wounds in stead.
I also don't fancy losing my character because I forgot my crafting gear on.

[Adata]

How would new people learn to hunt even, the fighting system is very hard to understand.
And why would you die to ko by ants, bats or bird... or even fox. Maybe bear or wolves only.
I already have a neighbour who is new to the game and he keeps dying to all the other possible things, like last time yarrow.

About fighting animals, for example I have a fight with bat and I click on the fighting moves and nothing happens.
How should I know I have to click on numbers instead, when other games make it possible to click on move and attack.
I only can fight animals because my friend told me what moves to use...

Imagine someone new and they dont have a friend who can explain fighting.
You think ''ok ants I can beat them'' but then you die... Good game.

[Cingal]

I think it's a bad idea in the current mechanics of the game.

Most PVE combat is handled via cheesing at this point, even if a character has the stats and ability to take down a bear 1 vs 1, there's no reason to take the extra damage, wounds and lose equipment in doing so, for the same results one could accomplish from the relative safety of cheesing.

As such, whilst it's realistic a bear or some large creature would kill and eat a spruce capped human, the implementation this stage only really serves to punish players who don't yet know how to cheese, or get caught out by some mistake.

As combat is due to be changed "At some point", I think the ideal situation would be to wait until those changes occur, gauge the balance of combat and new player experience at that point, and make changes from there.


In terms of Rage vs Non-Rage. I think Rage should provide more bonuses than it does at present. The trade-off is significant, and for a lot of players, simply not worthwhile. Rage perhaps acting as a second-wind in combat rather than going KO, at the cost of direct HHP damage, or somesuch would be a more interesting solution.

[Avu]

The only reason I came back was the lessening of the permadeath shit. Even so I nearly died in a dungeon, had to be saved... It's not like you can't die. There's lots of ways to die. Don't forget that the new satiation system means if you die you ain't fucking coming back this world at all.

Want a good rule of thumb? ANYTHING were I couldn't avoid the situation should never result in killing ever. Be it pvp (and this needs to fix the exploits with leeches, fleas, packs of animals not deagroing when one knocks you out and yes staggered hits before the final op cleave) or random agroing animals. However if there is something you could have done to avoid the thing: not swim that big ass river, not buy rage not entering the dangerous dungeon then it should be more deadly and they already are.

So how about we fix the game before we indulge in our sadistic tendencies loftar?

[Amanda44]

Things like trolls and mammoths should, imo, ofc be able to inflict death on hearthlings and possibly bears/packs of wolves but for everything else I think the ko protection is a good thing and is needed. You guys have spent a lot of effort into making this version of haven more noob and pve mentality friendly, I don't understand why you would want to revert that and go back to punishing newcomers and those of us who want to enjoy the non-pvp side of haven.

You have an extensive wound system now to balance things out, which in itself can be crippling for long periods of time, I don't think we need or should bring back full permadeath.

[loskierek]

yes for the big animals, badgers, foxes and smaller animals having a chance to kill you after they knock you out? Now that's fantasy.... How about concentrating on exploits first tho and then improving mechanics which are already implemented. I really don't fancy getting killed by a rage char who knows what he is doing

[Granger]

Things like trolls and mammoths should, imo, ofc be able to inflict death on hearthlings and possibly bears/packs of wolves

I disagree. Permadeath from mobs is 'fun' in games where everyone dies frequently (as in 'way more often than once per session'), but for many (to most) it isn't fun when used to timegate players on the scale it's happening in H&H (where failing at $mob could well mean months to get back to your old self, for another try at that mob to even start to make sense).

You have an extensive wound system now to balance things out, which in itself can be crippling for long periods of time, I don't think we need or should bring back full permadeath.

This. While being put out of commision for a RL week (healing time) till a new attempt to master something is at least within the grasp of being reasonable for many, replacing 'week' with the plural (or even month(s)) clearly isn't.

And the ones that think humans that share my mindset are all weaklings have the option to buy rage to unlock the hard difficulty mode for themselves.

[Aceb]

So we basically made full circle to similar topic:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=63170&hilit=remove+hunger
Two mechanics that prevents player to play in some regard.
If You want to bring permadeath back, wounds have to go away. If You wanna hear community out, don't bring permadeath from animals, just focus on adjusting and adding reasonable wounds.

Currently: Wolverine, Lynx, Eagle, Wolfs, Bear, Mammoth, Troll, slime showers in case of inexperienced players, snakes, badgers, Walruses, Otters, Cave louse.
Not to say if You aren't already armed from tip to toe, being able to run from Lynx and Eagle is impossible, even more when those close in pretty quickly.

As Ardennes pointed out, custom clients plays a HUGE ROLE in players not dying to PvE or have often a fair chance to avoid the danger before it's too late.
As someone who used default for a month Madao-san journey, I found myself attacked by snakes at start a lot since those can blend it nicely.

I can see where You come from with bears on rage killing or mammoths, but no, that would be very not intuitive and without a wiki, players might live with believe that any animal will behave same way once knocked out.

We might get back to this topic at W20 or when a lot of issues is fixed, server is stable, learning curve isn't so harsh and generally, the game will be in state where You're swimming in pool with money.

Luring bear on range to small plots, where player is close enough to wall, is possible to make bear AoE attack bypass wall and kill nab. Heck, I almost died to it myself since I was low on HHP and some cucko lured a bear under a wall I was farming.