Satiations, global pools, hunger and how it's affected trade

[jordancoles]

The only thing a noob could offer me right now that I'd want outside of the obvious rare resources would be cast iron or wrought iron

[borka]

Selling:

Token 125 pts

Buying:

Token 100 pts

nothing wrong with trade

[Kaios]

Haven't tokens also been taking over the market since their introduction and it's rather hard to compete with an in-game tradeable item worth around $10 no matter what there really is available to trade for? These things only perpetuate an already existing problem from my perspective.I kind of told you guys so before. Too bad everyone preferred to shit on me in that thread instead of addressing the issues becoming worse now.

[dageir]

Challenges in getting a working market in HnH in no particular order:
1. Bots will do menial tasks and ruin the market for new players.
2. Transport is somewhat cumbersome in the game.
3. “Everyone” can do “everything”. Meaning if it is doable big factions can do everything “in house”, negating the need for trade.
4. Almost everything has quality, meaning new players usually have little to offer to older players.
5. Quests with massive LP rewards might ruin some of the curio market.
6. No common currency.

Potential solutions:
1. Control the usage of bots. (Has not been a priority, and is maybe unrealistic).
2. Travel is as it is right now. Travel magic is too “unnatural” as it is in my opinion.
3. Increase specialisation to open several small niches so that everyone can not do everything. Severe time gating?
4. Have more items not depend on quality that is in high demand/consumption for the new players to grind to sell. Demand should be unsatiable so the bots can’t saturate the market.
5. Nerf questing. Go for credo quests only?
6. Might not be wanted by devs as it would be seen as not player driven.

[Aceb]

Challenges in getting a working market in HnH in no particular order:
1. Bots will do menial tasks and ruin the market for new players.
2. Transport is somewhat cumbersome in the game.
3. “Everyone” can do “everything”. Meaning if it is doable big factions can do everything “in house”, negating the need for trade.
4. Almost everything has quality, meaning new players usually have little to offer to older players.
5. Quests with massive LP rewards might ruin some of the curio market.
6. No common currency.

Potential solutions:
1. Control the usage of bots. (Has not been a priority, and is maybe unrealistic).
2. Travel is as it is right now. Travel magic is too “unnatural” as it is in my opinion.
3. Increase specialisation to open several small niches so that everyone can not do everything. Severe time gating?
4. Have more items not depend on quality that is in high demand/consumption for the new players to grind to sell. Demand should be unsatiable so the bots can’t saturate the market.
5. Nerf questing. Go for credo quests only?
6. Might not be wanted by devs as it would be seen as not player driven.

\

1. Meh it was always been issue since I remember but it didn't stop trade. Bigger groups wanted more than bots could chew on and still purchased from nabs.
2. Yeah even more nerf fast travel methods then "1." will become so mandatory, that LARPERS will cry that there is nobody to larp/trade with, completly ingoring the fact that their actions against fast travels and teleportation cause this in bigger scheme.
3. And yet, there's enough room that factions still buy from nabs. It's just that overtime some patches had unforseen by many consequences and Ozzy said several things over the forum and not only Him, that there is potential fix there and here.
4. Quality doesn't matter everywhere if there's some sort of sink.
5. Curio market was always ruined. It was always part of arms race for factions so only smaller people bought curios or lazy ones. Questing did push it only a "lil" further.
6. Gold and silver. More gold than silver. At least it was the case in W10 and W11 it might happen but it yet still to happen.

Moving to your solutions:
1. Unrealistic and was said, it's not gonna happen unless it's something nuke-worthy.
2. Travel is getting nerfed. Traversing oceans isn't fun if You do it a lot and there are people crying it should be even more boresome.
3. Specialisations won't fix anything if something will be in high demand or not worthy to do it. Quite otherwise, we need a global pool of items that hermits could provide to bigger group (past: blueberries).
4. Well yeah basically item sink that is less relevant to quality.
5. Well, I'm quite not sure why questing should be nerfed, more reworked, since most of arguments I see is people complaining that someone questing few hours more will leave the non questing player "sooo behind" and yet, I live underimperssion many just can't roll with it that someone with more time is just stronger as it should be.

[pppp]

Challenges in getting a working market in HnH in no particular order:
1. Bots will do menial tasks and ruin the market for new players.
2. Transport is somewhat cumbersome in the game.
3. “Everyone” can do “everything”. Meaning if it is doable big factions can do everything “in house”, negating the need for trade.
4. Almost everything has quality, meaning new players usually have little to offer to older players.
5. Quests with massive LP rewards might ruin some of the curio market.
6. No common currency.

1. Meh it was always been issue since I remember but it didn't stop trade. Bigger groups wanted more than bots could chew on and still purchased from nabs.
2. Yeah even more nerf fast travel methods then "1." will become so mandatory, that LARPERS will cry that there is nobody to larp/trade with, completly ingoring the fact that their actions against fast travels and teleportation cause this in bigger scheme.
3. And yet, there's enough room that factions still buy from nabs. It's just that overtime some patches had unforseen by many consequences and Ozzy said several things over the forum and not only Him, that there is potential fix there and here.
4. Quality doesn't matter everywhere if there's some sort of sink.
5. Curio market was always ruined. It was always part of arms race for factions so only smaller people bought curios or lazy ones. Questing did push it only a "lil" further.
6. Gold and silver. More gold than silver. At least it was the case in W10 and W11 it might happen but it yet still to happen.

Moving to your solutions:
1. Unrealistic and was said, it's not gonna happen unless it's something nuke-worthy.
2. Travel is getting nerfed. Traversing oceans isn't fun if You do it a lot and there are people crying it should be even more boresome.
3. Specialisations won't fix anything if something will be in high demand or not worthy to do it. Quite otherwise, we need a global pool of items that hermits could provide to bigger group (past: blueberries).
4. Well yeah basically item sink that is less relevant to quality.
5. Well, I'm quite not sure why questing should be nerfed, more reworked, since most of arguments I see is people complaining that someone questing few hours more will leave the non questing player "sooo behind" and yet, I live underimperssion many just can't roll with it that someone with more time is just stronger as it should be.

1. Botting will stay. the point is to make it not profitable enough by making things harder to bot.
2. Travel is fine as it is from my little man perspective. I can get further away if I spend more effort.
3. IDK, credos are a good attempt to force people to specialize. We already hear cries "it's too hard to get all credos !!".
3 and 4. Well that's the main point of that thread IMO. In past world it was possible to convert quantity into quality so we had escaping q problem. Then quantity to quality process was nerfed and we have (so far) less issues with quality but lots of issues with not needed quantity. So, yeah, we need a sink for quantity but I can't see motivation to use any kind of sink it it does not give quality in return. One of possibilities is to put it into combat alt building but I am not quite sure if it is a desired direction.
IMO quantity to quality conversion should be back but should come with lesser gains with higher q. Something like convert 20 blueberries into one juice dose which works like one higher q blueberry.
Then we probably need to keep 3 tiers of forageables:
- those that can be potted,
- those that can be potted with credo
- those than never can be potted
Make sure each tier has valuable curios like bluebells and valuable food ingredients and that not all of them are locked to one biome like edelweiss. Then some local pools instead of global pools shall be applied so foraging bots won't take all good stuff.

5. Questing needs fixing. I liked the idea with removing LP and giving tradeable curios instead with low int but high xp requirements (similar to a cigar). I would also add per char limit ("satiations") so questing too much will make the char get more "midge q increase" rewards. Questing should never lower hunger below 100%.
6. Yeah, gold silver, golden quills were pretty much common currency at the end of W10.
At this point a low q cast iron bar can be used as currency.

[wonder-ass]

hunger is irrelevant when you have good amount of salt and high charisma for questing. satiation's is a forced wait timer of 1 hour.

[eliminoid]

We need more stuff without quality/where quality does not matter, like silver or bat guano.

[shubla]

There were heavily botted things on legacy but they were still quite valuable.
There is no easy way to stop bots because people will just start disguising them or something.

[pppp]

We need more stuff without quality/where quality does not matter, like silver or bat guano.

The "quality does not matter" part is fine, but most likely big factions will be quicker at stuff like silver or bat guano than an average noob can be.
What we need is stuff that is not easily bottable and yet accessible to lowbie char.
Past world gray clay was great thing but with changes to potter clay it was nerfed to nonexistence. (that's another quantity to quality thing that was removed).

There is no easy way to stop bots because people will just start disguising them or something.

The point is to make botting harder - like solving complex tasks in the process.