Development Headsup: K/O-mechanics, Archery Towers

[loftar]

There needs to be a give/take associated with this skill or nobody is going to ever die

In my opinion, the give/take associated with it is its increasing cost for every time it's used. I'll admit I might be underestimating the ease with which end-game players can get numen, but I do wonder how much you guys have actually used the numen system as of late. The variety of things that the ancestors can ask for and the fact that not all of them can even be found at more than map-spawned qualities means that I suspect it might start to become somewhat hard once you get up into the 40-50 range, which you will eventually if you keep using wards.

Conversely, I wonder if you aren't overestimating the ward-count that noobs will be at. Admittedly, I might not be a "noob" per se, but I am clearly somewhat of a scrub in-game, and I think I've only really risked my life once this world (when I got accidentally aggroed by a forest mammoth), so I wouldn't even have had to collect a single point of numen thus far.

[SaltyCrate]

I like all of the proposed changes. Except maybe the numen cost scale up too slow for it to matter - even active fighters would have to be KO-d way too many times for it to become prohibitive.

[Zentetsuken]

There needs to be a give/take associated with this skill or nobody is going to ever die

In my opinion, the give/take associated with it is its increasing cost for every time it's used. I'll admit I might be underestimating the ease with which end-game players can get numen, but I do wonder how much you guys have actually used the numen system as of late. The variety of things that the ancestors can ask for and the fact that not all of them can even be found at more than map-spawned qualities means that I suspect it might start to become somewhat hard once you get up into the 40-50 range, which you will eventually if you keep using wards.

The general consensus is that the game gets exponentially easier as you become more of a titan. The highest statted characters generally also live in the villages with the highest quality industries. I think the idea of increasing costs for numen will be meaningless.

You know how you have divided players in to groups based on the amount of quests they completed? Is it possible to do this with PVP activity?
What if there were instead "brackets" of characters related to PVP activity and this skill only worked in a per-bracket situation?
So like the most highly PVP active characters with highest stats have the lowest % chance for this skill to actually work? Or maybe there should be competition within each bracket, and you can overspend when you purchase ward, and have a better chance for the KO protection to work on you within your bracket?

Ofcourse the bottom brackets (noobs) will have much less or zero competition and like a 90-100% success rate.

[loftar]

The general consensus is that the game gets exponentially easier as you become more of a titan. The highest statted characters generally also live in the villages with the highest quality industries. I think the idea of increasing costs for numen will be meaningless.

Without denying that that might be the case, I'm not so sure about it that I feel it makes it necessary to change this system from the outset for this reason alone. That is something we should monitor over time and perhaps reevaluate when we have some data on hand. I'm sure we could do something more complex about it if necessary, but unless it is necessary, I'd rather stick to simplistic.

[Astarisk]

Also I see you are saying this is a deterrent for zero investment characters? What are these zero investment characters you are talking about? And if the character is really zero investment than would it matter if the character gets killed anyways?

it would mean they need to grind numens to make them immortal which imo does work. i would never spend time to grind numens for alts.

I think you missed the point I was trying to make. I wouldn't care if a zero investment character dies, this change would do nothing to it. On the other hand though with the current costs I could at least have a small amount of will in me to grind a few points of numen, 10 or so points isn't too much as its just base quality. That would be at least 10 ko's on a zero investment character.

[Ozzy123]

What about this : make it so that animals can randomly finish you off like it used to be, make the ward only increase your chances of surviving, make it cost way more numens, make it do nothing for PVP

For pvp : Full KO protection, not being able to kill someone when he is KO'ed BUT make wounds take more off your HHP and make them easier to heal (unable to heal with combat relations active), so that you can still get 2-3 cleaves and then die in the end after a big hit, remove concussion RNG so attackers can also assume your total hp and calculate when to deal the big hit, I think that'd result with people sometimes dying, sometimes surviving both for PVE and PVP scenarios.

[loftar]

That would be at least 10 ko's on a zero investment character.

Wouldn't it mean 4 KOs?

[Zentetsuken]

The general consensus is that the game gets exponentially easier as you become more of a titan. The highest statted characters generally also live in the villages with the highest quality industries. I think the idea of increasing costs for numen will be meaningless.

Without denying that that might be the case, I'm not so sure about it that I feel it makes it necessary to change this system from the outset for this reason alone. That is something we should monitor over time and perhaps reevaluate when we have some data on hand. I'm sure we could do something more complex about it if necessary, but unless it is necessary, I'd rather stick to simplistic.

Okay you are right.
You should implement this but gather data after you implement it.

and we all know that the only unbiased way to gather data is on a blank canvas without any of the pre-existing prejudices and unfairnesses in balance of power that w11 has. We don't know how useful this will be unless people have the opportunity to use it to protect themselves from day 1 and deal with the increased costs from that point on.

W12 confirmed.

[Fostik]

So yeah, summary from my point of view
1. Everyone will have ward turned on by default. There's no idiots who will leave base without it.
2. Noobs should no suffer for this system at all, as they knocking too often while learning the game.
3. Players should'nt pay ward for accidental knock during mining/PvE/dungeons.
4. If all above points satisfied - numen cost should rise in geometric progression rather than arithmetic progression, or pvp'ers and other fraction players will comply with this numen cost too easy.

Probably will be a workaround, if player will lose his ward only if he will log off or hearth back being knocked out? So wards will only be used in PvP

[loftar]

1. Everyone will have ward turned on by default. There's no idiots who will leave base without it.
2. Noobs should no suffer for this system at all, as they knocking too often while learning the game.

That would certainly be a sub-optimal way to use wards. Again, there's zero reason for using wards against eg. foxes and boars, and wasting your invocations on that would definitely not be the best way to play the game. Conversely, there should be no trouble with casting it when you actually feel the need to.