Please balance "Raw Hide!"

[kmarad]

cry moar nub. Raw Hide keeps the scrubs in check.

To be honnest, seeing that people create new accounts just to answer that topic make me happy.
That's some dedication.
Is the wasted time worth the post though, I don't know, do I?

So for a new page, and back on the topic :

Why no Raw Hide! for kicksleds? If the problem is that people can use the speed of vehicles to get to you, then kicksleds and boats should be a concern.
What about offensive use of this spell? For instance people can use it from a snekkja against someone on horse, have plenty of time to get to him, and gangbang him, making using a horse more dangerous than being on foot (so why would people tame and ride horses when actually it's more dangerous than going on foot).

[Apocoreo]

he couldn't beat a digging alt managed by a sprucecap with 0 stats while beign on horse.

If a pvp character cannot beat a labor alt then the magic is OP. This is a reason to nerf it my dude.

EDIT: yeah i'm late to the party but this is an excellent example of why it's ridiculous. Later in the thread he complains we would change our tune if we were being chased "5v1" horses vs on foot. If 5 people on foot were chasing anyone they'd be fucked anyway. If it was 1v1 I might stand and fight, horse or not, AND I could still dismount. All I see are people whining about chases being turned from a water q check to a horse q check. Is that really such a huge change?

I actually died to a horse rider this world on a new char that didn't have Raw Hide. Sounds unfair right? Wrong. I should have had a horse too. I could have got one. I didn't put as much effort into prep then the horseman. If I had a horse, it would have been the same as if were were both on foot.

Why no Raw Hide! for kicksleds? If the problem is that people can use the speed of vehicles to get to you, then kicksleds and boats should be a concern.

Wonderful point. If horse combat is cancer, so is knarr combat, being a q check for the ship, rather than the water or horse. Same fucking issue. Only difference is you can run onto the shore.

[Glorthan]

water q check to a horse q check

Water quality doesn't matter. Do you even play the game?

Only difference is you can run onto the shore.

Yes, you can easily escape a snekkja or knarr in almost all circumstances, the primary exception being deep ocean crossing (extremely rare encounters). Can't you see the difference?

[kmarad]

water q check to a horse q check

Water quality doesn't matter. Do you even play the game?

Yes water quality matters in pvp, and you look stupid right now :/
Oh and no I won't tell you why, because why would I waste time on a noob that has no experience on the topic, right?
Now please though, shut up and let respectful people debate on that topic. Thank you.

EDIT : I'm re-reading myself, and I don't like it, I'm not that kind of person.
Higher q water makes you drain less energy when you drink it. Also I'm not sure but maybe it fills your stamina bar faster (?).
Anyway for sure, draining less energy you are less likely to die from starvation - because apparently that's what pvp runs get to, lately - ....

[Glorthan]

It doesn't heal more stamina per gulp, any quality of water heals 10%/gulp. This is intentional so that water quality doesn't matter for escaping.

At 1000% energy/slot for basic foods energy is not the limiting factor. It also doesn't slow you down to eat it. Again, water q is irrelevant.

Quantity on the other hand... getting caught with little water doesn't give you a high chance of escaping.

[jock]

Threads where people that don't pvp try to suggest pvp changes should be insta-locked tbh.

love these quotes. Lets not change pvp so the people who don't pvp will ever join it.

[kmarad]

At 1000% energy/slot for basic foods energy is not the limiting factor. It also doesn't slow you down to eat it. Again, water q is irrelevant.
Quantity on the other hand... getting caught with little water doesn't give you a high chance of escaping.

How can water q not be a limiting factor because you can put 1000% energy food per slot when you need those slots for water quantity ?

[Glorthan]

At 1000% energy/slot for basic foods energy is not the limiting factor. It also doesn't slow you down to eat it. Again, water q is irrelevant.
Quantity on the other hand... getting caught with little water doesn't give you a high chance of escaping.

How can water q not be a limiting factor because you can put 1000% energy food per slot when you need those slots for water quantity ?

Quality 40 water (very commonly available) takes 15% energy a sip. Quality 90 water (possibly the highest at this time) takes 13.3% a sip. It just doesn't matter. If you really care, it's easy to produce beer en masse that heals energy instead of using water.

My point was if you're going out to forage with a couple of waterskins like a normal person you'll likely get shit on and run out of water. The quality of water in them is irrelevant, but many people may not have enough to get away/to safety if they are not planning for a pvp encounter.

Can we put this to bed already?

[Apocoreo]

I mean, we recently had a moot thread where a guy died of starvation during a chase, due to water. If water quality matters for energy, it sure as hell mattered there. But I see your point in that for most chases, water quantity is more important than quality.

So this change would result in who wins chases being less about who is carrying around more waterskins, likely with the intent to chase, and more about who's herder has grinded harder. I like that.

As for boat combat, escaping a faster boat merely reverts it to a foot race. I don't see much issue there.

Aesthetically, I just hate the mental image from the whole "drink and run" gameplay. Additionally, right clicking waterskins takes away time you could be spend planning jukes, lures, and gambits. That is, if you're planning vanilla, god help you. A side conversation about making pvp more accessible is going on and making pvp more realistically possible in the vanilla client would do a lot to help that.