Make PVP opt-in only

[Zentetsuken]

Might be worth adding that this change doesn't have to be permanent.

The devs were absolutely willing to remove seasons entirely on the premise that they would not be working on making them better any time soon, so having them gone for a while was an option until they could be re-implemented in a better state.

So why not do the same with PVP?

Make PVP opt-in only, knowing full well that the devs will have no time to work on it any time soon. While it's in this state everybody who loves PVP can absolutely still enjoy it without any changes, but the people who are directly burdened by it will have a chance to learn and enjoy the game in peace until the devs find time in the future to take another stab at redoing it. I suspect this is "in the pipe" as they keep talking about wanting to redo animal AI and PVE.

This just seems like a fair and obvious solution.

[shubla]

Of course how to remove pvp without making some obvious exploits easy is an another question, but I think that some nice solution is 1 or 2 thinking sessions away.

Removing PVP is wrong word I think, effectively removing non consenting pvp is what should be done. For example, in siege, remove all penalties from archery towers and make them OP so that its enough to build 1 of them to repel the attack.
Make random killings of noobs more difficult. Many ways to do this, penalize attackers, area specific rules etc. for example thingwall specific rules.

I think one important thing that devs indeed miss is that none of their fantasies really are true about this conflict resolution via pvp.
As mentioned earlier in the thread, if attacker has more stats etc. than you, then you cannot do anything to him.

I can 100% guarantee that if you build pali around some random noobs place in early game especially, he will either quit the game or just create a new character.
Reason why palis are not built is not that pvp would somehow prevent it, but that its lot of effort to build them so people do not bother.

[Zentetsuken]

I can 100% guarantee that if you build pali around some random noobs place in early game especially, he will either quit the game or just create a new character.
Reason why palis are not built is not that pvp would somehow prevent it, but that its lot of effort to build them so people do not bother.

At the very least it may not be such a daunting task to go and smack down a freshly built section of palisade that somebody is attempting to grief you with if you know you cannot be simply killed by leaving your wall.

Compared to PVPing with a titan who has 8000 more strength than you or learning the bizarre and unintuitive ins and outs of PVP meta in this shitty combat system, some basic grief mitigation seems like an very accessible way to protect your enjoyment of the game for a new player.

[meus]

There are barely 100 people online. Avoiding PVP is easy already, unless someone's actively looking for trouble.

[shubla]

There are barely 100 people online. Avoiding PVP is easy already, unless someone's actively looking for trouble.

Yes 100 people precisely because of PVP.
Its a small world anyways, where people are going with q500 knarrs finding the remaining noobs in no time, to kill and siege them, to make hnh permanently be a bad word in their memories.

[telum12]

There are barely 100 people online. Avoiding PVP is easy already, unless someone's actively looking for trouble.

Yes 100 people precisely because of PVP.
Its a small world anyways, where people are going with q500 knarrs finding the remaining noobs in no time, to kill and siege them, to make hnh permanently be a bad word in their memories.

LMAO who is doing that?

You act like there's some legion of people sailing around in their knarrs hunting people down.

There's MAYBE 1-2 person who logs in, runs around for a while on a horse, thingwalling around, checking if they find someone. If they do, try to kill them.

You also usually check if someone fucked up their claim.

No one is sieging random nabs. It's SO MUCH FUCKING EFFORT YOU RETARD.

-----

PS The offer still stands: We can 1v1 siege where I don't attack you at all, so you can show me how much sieging is in favour of the aggressor.

[Zentetsuken]

You are both wrong, the numbers are not low because of PVP, the numbers are low because the game is bad and pointless to play after 2-3 months are spent on it, you can crosscheck the login data of this world with any other and it's practically identical.

That being said, avoiding PVP is absolutely difficult if you are a new player. People are spawning in to the world without knowing any better and settling near some area with active players all the time.

We are seeing reports and pictures in discord on a weekly (or more) basis of random new players getting ganked. Sailing around on knarrs or hopping through the main 3 continents via thingwalls to look for people to kill is absolutely what some people are doing. We see sieges and similar "high effort" kills posted often. This is not a secret at all and if you don't agree it's happening you are either not paying attention or just trying to shit up this thread with arguments.

Please do not shit up this thread with arguments and bullshit.

There are public discords that are effectively used as daily diaries for both the new "snail" archetype of player who spend the last 8 months of a world killing people for the soul purpose of trying to ruin the game for others, as well as the players both new and old who complain about being killed after creating drama or foolishly revealing their location.

PVP being inaccessible to new players is not a secret, it's not a new epiphany, it's just a fact of this game.

I think the bulk of the playerbase for survival games has evolved beyond the "minecraft anarchy server destroy everything and actively try to make other people have a bad time" type gameplay.

Nobody should be surprised that people are unhappy that this relic of shitty game genre is still thriving in haven and hearth.


The overwhelming minority of the playerbase is interested in the PVP of this game, and lets be honest, they are stuck here doing it in this game because of the nostalgia and familiarity of it all.


It's time to move on and let this game evolve in to something better.

[Audiosmurf]

I think the bulk of the playerbase for survival games has evolved beyond the "minecraft anarchy server destroy everything and actively try to make other people have a bad time" type gameplay.

Nobody should be surprised that people are unhappy that this relic of shitty game genre is still thriving in haven and hearth.


The overwhelming minority of the playerbase is interested in the PVP of this game, and lets be honest, they are stuck here doing it in this game because of the nostalgia and familiarity of it all.


It's time to move on and let this game evolve in to something better.

Somehow, I kind of think you're false flagging, and I agree with jorb's sentiments re: pvp and griefing (like, in theory, what's to prevent me from surrounding your base with an unkillable wall of alts and boxing you in Forever if I have the capacity to do so,) but this is still based.

[Zentetsuken]

Somehow, I kind of think you're false flagging, and I agree with jorb's sentiments re: pvp and griefing (like, in theory, what's to prevent me from surrounding your base with an unkillable wall of alts and boxing you in Forever if I have the capacity to do so,) but this is still based.

Nothing is preventing you from doing that, you could do it right now.

That being said, lets explore this scenario for a moment.

Why are you not surrounding somebody's base with a palisade right now?

Well, palisades not on a claim are breakable, you can't really claim that close to another claim and you definitely can't box in another claim unless you use village flags. The entire process would either take a very long time and a lot of effort, or it would leave a gap in the claim and ultimately be breakable. Am I missing anything?

If PVP is removed, do I think that the "I want to ruin the game for everybody by being an obnoxious griefer" type of player would maybe atleast attempt such a thing?

Maybe?

However, if a player knows that leaving their base to deal with a griefer does not equate to guaranteed, immediate PVP engagement and death, there is nothing really stopping them from going to smack walls away as some idiot is building them.


It's just a silly and exhausting argument to make.

Do we believe that people would be willing to go through the effort of making elaborate new ways to grief and ruin other peoples games? Yeah, maybe?
Even though there is nothing stopping them from doing the exact same shit right now? Yeah, maybe?
And we think that these processes and activities will become so widepspread and popular that there will be more complaints about janky, exploity behaviour after PVP is removed than there are with it in? ...ehhh.... that's a stretch

I duno man, I just really don't see it.

You are saying that lowly noobs being safe from random ganks is going to be the motivation a few people need to create a new terrible endemic of game breaking griefing activities??

It just seems pretty farfetched.

And as a stated before, even if it does cause an increase in this kind of behaviour, I am pretty confident that it would still be a net positive change to the game. There is no way that this kind of behaviour could become as easy and prevalent as simple killings, there is no way there could be as many complaints and problems as there are now with PVP being mandatory.

Opt-in only PVP, no matter the problems it may create (which are ALL based on inferring some pretty wild stuff), would still be a net-positive change for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase

[SnuggleSnail]

PVP is the driving force behind the game for nearly everybody who plays beyond getting getting steel and killing a whale, even if they don't PVP. I doubt there's a viable alternative end game, and it would kindof be a betrayal of long term players to so radically change the direction of the game IMO

At one point a drastically larger portion of the playerbase were PVPers. I suspect the decline is due to LARP content being consistently prioritized over the PVP experience. It's kinda sad to see the game really lose its roots in simplicity & brutality to LARP and needless complexity over time. Imagine if you had posted this thread in legacy