Murder buff is a gift to factions and nobody else

[nyaanyaa]

I wouldn't call this a PvP game because people do not seek out PvP and will do everything in their power to avoid having it on anything resembling fair terms. All the grinding, all the bots, all the extreme effort in gaining stats is meant to give you an advantage so that you can make PvP as brief as possible if you're the aggressor, or as safe as possible if you're the one fleeing across 5000 map tiles with all scenery converted into neon squares for the best gaming visuals since Pong. Seriously, look at The Moot and tell me this is a PvP game. I'd say it's more of a Sandcastle Kicker simulator.

I'm still new to this game, but I've played quite a few online games in my time. From what I've seen in the forums-- and in the game myself from talking to other friendly people-- the gankers are more like a force of nature that you simply deal with if you're unlucky enough to experience it. It's like in the Harvest Moon games when you a get a bunch of crappy weather days that block your progress. You really wanted to plant some new crops today, but the game decided that you don't get to. If GokuThaThugKilla420 and his posse decides to ruin your day there's simply no recourse and you just accept it, or play a different game if it frustrates you enough. The one thing that all stories share is the sheer futility felt in anyone trying to change things. No one is going to form a vigilante group, it would just be suicide because you're fighting a level 5000 Battleship as a level 2 Rattata.

Haven reminds me of Ultima Online in that it had different playstyles forcibly sharing the same world. In that game, though, people organized tournaments and sparring among friends was common. People liked training and fighting. They even formed anti-PK patrol groups, even if they were never successful. I don't see any 'Valhalla Tournament this Saturday" threads, so I'm going to make the basic assumption that no one enjoys the combat itself, on fair terms, without the idea of inflicting penalties on rivals or weak bystanders.
Ultimately, UO's developers considered its player justice system a failure, as the good guys could never win. That was a game that eventually penalized PKs in ways Haven never would, like 20% stat loss on what would be a KO in Haven. Even with that penalty, though, murderers very rarely died because they had every advantage.
So it is that the "PvP" in this game is just a hurricane that damages your crops. However, a hurricane, as a large mass of magnetism-powered water, has a better personality than the typical Haven ganker.

[Valgar]

Nice summary.
If a % stats loss appears on the KOed "red handed" I think we will see an hurl of tears on the forum, but that could calm down many sprucecap killers.

[dorag]

throw back to w10 where the norm was 60% griev with no downside of getting murdered when kod lmaooo

like no one died in w10 big pvp and thier was still a lot to than between factions

[dorag]

Nice summary.
If a % stats loss appears on the KOed "red handed" I think we will see an hurl of tears on the forum, but that could calm down many sprucecap killers.

if that became a thing and i couldn't fight my neighbor id just fuckin make a bunch of yeomanry alts that build palisades and claim all around that neighbor and if he trys to fight back he loses % stats 10 seconds of thought tells me thier are a million things i can do to exploit this idea is so stupid even if its gated behind rage on day ONE of a new world you can easily get rage its only 30k lp you can get that from questing at this point you can make like 3-4 rage alts in a day with 0 stats to bait people into hitting you to reduce your stats so ye people would cry b.c the idea doesn't even have a semblance of intelligent thought in it

[MightySheep]

I'm still new to this game, but I've played quite a few online games in my time. From what I've seen in the forums-- and in the game myself from talking to other friendly people-- the gankers are more like a force of nature that you simply deal with if you're unlucky enough to experience it. It's like in the Harvest Moon games when you a get a bunch of crappy weather days that block your progress. You really wanted to plant some new crops today, but the game decided that you don't get to. If GokuThaThugKilla420 and his posse decides to ruin your day there's simply no recourse and you just accept it, or play a different game if it frustrates you enough. The one thing that all stories share is the sheer futility felt in anyone trying to change things. No one is going to form a vigilante group, it would just be suicide because you're fighting a level 5000 Battleship as a level 2 Rattata.

its funny because half the time GokuThaThugKilla420 is also a newbie but he actually bothered to learn what buttons to press and now he can take your shit whenever he feels like it because you (along with most of the playerbase tbh) mentally crippled yourself with this "its futile" loser mentality, just look at whatever bay, they got 90 people with top tier equipment and still dont defend themselves

I remember my first world I got 33 kills I had a photobucket album with all the screenshots, I probably had no idea what I was doing in actual pvp but I was mostly going around shooting everyone with a sling lol. I only say this because it just proves how dumb this 'if someoen tries to rape you, just lay down and dont resist' mentality u see all over this forum is. The reality is just running away in pvp is about 100x easier than people here act like it is

Nice summary.
If a % stats loss appears on the KOed "red handed" I think we will see an hurl of tears on the forum, but that could calm down many sprucecap killers.

Red handed is 20 minutes, it wouldnt make a difference to spruce killing, it would just be awkward in actual pvp. What would make me kill less spruce caps is red handed being an hour but jorb and loftar hate sprucies , sorry to tell you , so its 20 minutes

[terechgracz]

Proposition 1.1
☛Remove death.
Proposition 1.2
☛Limit minimum HHP to 25.
Proposition 2.1
☛Make KO'ed character lose n% of skills and instantly gives back it for KO'er in form of LP, multiplied by some number between (0, 1).
Proposition 2.2
☛Make the scaling number be weighted by ko'er/ko'ed LP. So when I kill someone who has 2x more LP than me, then this scaling value would be 0.75. On the other hand when i kill someone who has less than half of my LP total, then this number is 0.25.
Proposition 3
☛Make being KO'ed more than n times in certain window frame cause ban for some time. That would remove abuse of no death mechanic.

Implementing proposition 1 would remove murder cancer towards noobs, proposition 1.2 answers question to what should we do with HHP then. We do nothing, wounds effectively act as debuff for con. Implementing proposition 2 gives incentive for people to KO stronger foes. Proposition 3 answers question - what if I want to abuse my character to annoy other people with my presence.

[DonVelD]

i dont know what im talking about

wow, you dont know what youre talking about

[Robben_DuMarsch]

The overhit mechanic in general fucks anyone who doesn't understand openings and has low con.

I swear years ago loftar said he was going to limit it so the last hit doesn't do more SHP damage than you have left before KO, and I assumed that meant the HHP would be scaled to the SHP damage dealt. The fact that it isn't is the major killing factor.

Implement this then /thread.
If PvP needs to be *riskier* there can be a more elegant way to apply that risk to PvPers rather than putting the primary risk of permadeath on newbs.

Proposition 1.1
Proposition 2.1
☛Make KO'ed character lose n% of skills and instantly gives back it for KO'er in form of LP, multiplied by some number between (0, 1).
Proposition 2.2
☛Make the scaling number be weighted by ko'er/ko'ed LP. So when I kill someone who has 2x more LP than me, then this scaling value would be 0.75. On the other hand when i kill someone who has less than half of my LP total, then this number is 0.25.

I like the idea of this being done by spawning a curio when you down an enemy, with similar scaling as described. I think that'll put more skin in the game for PvPers and titans, but be fair to newer players who will lose very little. There should be three additions:
- a special food called "A pound of flesh" that transfers statistics similarly. Both items should not have 100% efficiency, as you've described.
- The consumables should be locked to the individual that performs the KO, to avoid abuse in power leveling characters.
- The scaling should be made to be equivalent to every person who aggressed you in the past 30 minutes. This makes people getting ganked it outnumbered fights lose substantially less, even if a low tier alt is used to get the KO.

[nyaanyaa]

its funny because half the time GokuThaThugKilla420 is also a newbie but he actually bothered to learn what buttons to press and now he can take your shit whenever he feels like it because you (along with most of the playerbase tbh) mentally crippled yourself with this "its futile" loser mentality, just look at whatever bay, they got 90 people with top tier equipment and still dont defend themselves

If there was any chance that the aggressor would die (KO) then the risk would not be taken. It's a rather simple thing, really. People don't play games like this to be challenged or to take risks. People play them for some crafting and farming stuff and some antisocial people play them to remind everyone why these libertarian fantasy worlds have extremely high attrition rates for those masochistic enough to try them. I'm not saying that as any sort of "shitty devs!" thing; they've chosen a niche over popularity and profit. It's nice that such developers still exist. (Edit: that might have sounded patronizing, but I didn't mean it to. I honestly think it's great that they're stuck to their principles. They're making the game that they want.)
Anyway, did you attack them with nettle gear with +exploration gilds while you had two baskets in your hand, or were you geared for combat with a combat deck geared for the situation? Did you give them an advanced warning to prepare for combat or did they already have half health before they realized what was happening?
I understand that you guys need to pretend that it's sporting, but you're the guys shooting deer with drones from an air conditioned room. You're not wrestling bears to the death.

I recognize my voice shouldn't be worth much, if anything. My Haven playstyle is to play a World for a few weeks or a month, if that, until I get ganked and my progress is reset, which is the Game Over screen for me. The game wouldn't exist if everyone played the way I did. Those few weeks are really fun, though.

[Halbertz]

Skill issue.

Jorb hates hermits, so there is still no 'surrender and let attacker take anything from my inventory' option.