Give Storm of Swords the Jugular treatment

[Nightdawg]

Bob, in World 14 the group I was part of had 9-ish main fighters + 5 people who were willing to join when we were outnumbered (this includes foragers, hunters, a miner)

During the largest fights even, we only had 2 (TWO) b12s, only because we literally couldn't afford the steel. Most of the time we were running with stolen b12s. We could barely gear ourselves with armor. Some of us were running around in bronze still.
I myself chose to use a sword with shield for as long as possible even though I had the 3rd highest stats most of the time.

You know damn well we ended up having to go 1 vs 3 factions that world (because I cried about it all the time) and everyone was calling us the noobs for the entire world. We're the first ones that used jugular, and we didn't complain when it got nerfed, we were happy, cause it was dogshit free wins. Half of us didn't even have oppknocks in our decks, it was retarded.

We were still winning fights and losing fights regardless of how many b12's we had even after jugular got nerfed.

My suggestion still doesn't affect your newbies spamming one button when they outnumber another group. It only seeks to balance and make more things reliable, not just one weapon and one button.

[pawnchito]

Rip this nerf makes sense for pvp but is going to suck for small group pve larpers.

[Nightdawg]

Rip this nerf makes sense for pvp but is going to suck for small group pve larpers.

I figured 3 targets would still work for dungeons, wolves and whatnot, would it not?

[Dawidio123]

Rip this nerf makes sense for pvp but is going to suck for small group pve larpers.

I figured 3 targets would still work for dungeons, wolves and whatnot, would it not?

Eh, full circle might just be better at that point (and it's by no means bad) because some rooms tend to get very crowded, same as wolves attack in packs of 6+. But the main thing about SoS is it's insane openings, you cannot spam full circle and expect to open a decent amount, you can absolutely spam SoS and open like 60-70 in two hits, not even considering bloodlust. So full circle is usually spammed in the dungeons but having a few guys spam uppercut (which also hits green opened by full circle) makes it a lot more viable. Sos would end up the choice for the less crowded rooms with stronger enemies (like white beavers).

[Nightdawg]

You can still open with 2x SoS and after that just FC, and it would still work in small groups clearing dungeons. Sure, you won't be able to clear beaver dungeons within the first week, but I mean people who do them that early usually have many more and use Punch 'em Both + FC anyway, right?

[pawnchito]

its painful to accept the need for a change because its op af for both sides of combat. its easy leaning on a crutch but you right

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Combat doesn't need a change. Focus on other things.

[Dawidio123]

Oh yeah punch'em both, that was the one used not uppercut, sorry memory is cloudy, i stop doing dungeons super fast, i find them kinda tedious after first weeks and like 2-3 heart containers. And yeah you are right people who do them early will do them regardless of SoS nerf.

But yeah, it's an easy crutch for both pvp and pve, and nerfing it just for pvp feels right, but nerfing it for pve will make it rougher for hermits who want to clear the dungeons solo with minimal effort. Honestly i always thought of dungeons as group content so idk. I think it would still be pretty damn good as nightdawg said with just 2 sos and then FC, you'd kill the main targets quickly enough and the rest would be just the clean up.

Combat doesn't need a change. Focus on other things.

SoS meta nerf is a super quick fix of changing a few variables compared to rebalancing the core systems such as feasting. And it does need a change. Just as jugular needed a change. I understand that you having the big numbers of brainless one button clickers benefit from not nerfing it, but one button combos are not healthy for the game same as the jugular.

[Nightdawg]

Combat doesn't need a change. Focus on other things.

We're obviously not gonna get this SoS change or any of the other good recent suggestions. We'll get 2 redrawn buttons, 3 ugly hats (that somehow already exist), a spit in our face and reminder to buy gold subs.

It's just nice to daydream of improvements.

[maze]

This argument reminds me of how raiders think it's to hard to raid and how they want to nerf claims and base defenses.

In a combat where clearly people can die/lose their character permanently, you want a slider of

High skill skills = more damage = more likely to kill people
while low skill skills = are able to defend = less likely to kill people

The fact stands that SoS was less likely to kill players but in the hands of anyone can be used to win a fight; While Cleave and other meta's were much more likely to kill someone and win in low player number fights.
In general the lower amount of players in a fight you have the more skill they must use; rather then timing cleave with 10 people, what knocks out (and kill) 1 person and 10 people using SoS would likely knock out 3 or 4.

This is not an unhealthy combat currently in any game Dev's eyes and seems fairly balanced.

I think there is bigger rather pressing problems with combat then SoS and cleave metas; that being stats, and move speeds, or better seen as Nolifing and client abuse.