Level cap

[svino]

Nah, even 1v1 DotA is orders of magnitude more complex than Haven. The actions space is a lot smaller in H&H, so training would take a lot less time and you wouldn't need as much expertise to train it.

Ok, you're trying to compare 1v1 sf mid dota with x vs y haven combat. The reason the dota bot works is that there are so many constraints to 1v1 mid only, no runes.

Some combat bot for haven would have to cover factors like cliffs, boats, knarrs, palisades, branch blocking, which direction to escape to, objectives like rams/pclaims/salt, and all the things that noone thought about. Machine learning is excellent at optimizing values, but right now there are a lot of problems with dealing with the value of concepts.

For the dota 1v1 bot, the bot has to optimize much less values.
How much his own hp is worth, how much his tower hp is worth, how much a creep kill is worth, how much enemy hp is worth, and more advanced things like what position is optimal for you and least optimal for the opponent.

I bet someone could quickly make some haven bots that can do something like attacking in a synchronized manner, but it's still not going to be useful for anything except maybe defending a ram.

[Potjeh]

Bot doesn't need to do high level decision making, though. When I'm talking about proper client integration, I am indeed talking about a "Starcraft" client, ie one where you'd control multiple chars in a single client but with them having sufficient AI to handle the "micro" and the actual player just handling higher level orders like fight in this area or board this knarr. I think a bot would outperform a human at these micro things, like coordinating strikes and OpKnock and moving in and peeling off when appropriate.

[dafels]

hafen rts edition:
- make a client without 3d rendering
- make 20 combat alts
- run 20 clients
- run a client with 3d rendering and control the bots with it
- doesnt even need advanced ai, just a way to give commands and control them(bots would do precoded attacks for attack and defences to regain bars when they have a need for them)

have 5 people doing this in a team and you have a huge army lmao

[svino]

hafen rts edition:
- make a client without 3d rendering
- make 20 combat alts
- run 20 clients
- run a client with 3d rendering and control the bots with it
- doesnt even need advanced ai, just a way to give commands and control them(bots would do precoded attacks for attack and defences to regain bars when they have a need for them)

have 5 people doing this in a team and you have a huge army lmao

And we get those high player count numbers. maybe j&l should implement the rts combat themselves?

[dafels]

hafen rts edition:
- make a client without 3d rendering
- make 20 combat alts
- run 20 clients
- run a client with 3d rendering and control the bots with it
- doesnt even need advanced ai, just a way to give commands and control them(bots would do precoded attacks for attack and defences to regain bars when they have a need for them)

have 5 people doing this in a team and you have a huge army lmao

maybe j&l should implement the rts combat themselves?

doesnt even need j&l to do that, just give 2 largest factions these clients and you will see rts battles hehe
the combat is so dumb that this is totally possible without any advanced ai stuff and I dont think this would be hard for anyone who knows how hafen's client is built

[Potjeh]

An advanced faction should have no problems raising multiple combat chars with a basic experience farm and good use of "From the public coffer" even in an uncapped system.

[svino]

ok i'm glad we all agree, the only way to fix this theoretical problem of combat alts is to make stats exponentially better the more you have.

[Potjeh]

Nope, like I said there's no obstacle to raising an army of titans so bot armies are equally viable with and without caps.

[svino]

Nope, like I said there's no obstacle to raising an army of titans so bot armies are equally viable with and without caps.

but with exponentially increasing value of stats, of course we would all put all the food into one character.

[skltnk00]

ok i'm glad we all agree, the only way to fix this theoretical problem of combat alts is to make stats exponentially better the more you have.

It's not "the only way to fix this"

It's the most stupid way.

But you're right - the problem is theoretical, cause it might only happen in your imagination.