Hafen's economy and logistics and how it's ruining the PVE.

[DDDsDD999]

correct, but what i believe is the original issue was how we as people created currency for the world, which allows players who are new to completely access content that should be above them by simply mining out the currency from the ground, which in and of itself is a simple task. Previous worlds attempted currency numerous times and failed, only in these past iterations has it shown to be stable at all. Most trades were barters, because both parties then receive some sort of good that has value. I dont think anyone is going to bother denying that trade isnt a thing. Its that trading on a global market scale currently creates the issue that players come in, get the best stuff immediately, and forego the grind that creates beginning level gameplay and milestones.

Gold has been a currency forever. People have been able to mine gold forever. Coins have nothing to do with any of this.

[AntiBlitz]

gold has not been a currency forever, that is total bullshit. Previous worlds struggled with currency issues because gold didnt help someone. Gold serves no purpose but what purpose you give it, and that is true with coins as well. The topic isnt even about coins, and jorbtar never introduced any such currency, we created it. Again, there are take aways from this discussion, that arent related to trade, but impact the global trade market of the game.

Talking on the forums is hard, like talking to fucking rocks sometimes. Just stuff words down others throats, christ sake.

What? Jorb and Loftar created a currency when they created a rare resource that was needed in many endgame recipes. You think we somehow changed the world by putting gold bars through a press and naming them "Golden Quill?" You could still just trade the bars. Gold has literally always been a currency since it was added. If you want to talk about an actual problem, talk about trade-able hats and game time tokens. Those are a much bigger problem than gold is for incoming players. Dropping $75 on 12 tokens is currently worth about 108 bars of gold.

First, dont fucking what me,
they never created a currency, dont fucking lie, currency is a creation of the world, and dies with it or the supporters. Changed the world, yes, simply. But we arent here to discuss economics, and there isnt any such issue with someone forming currency. Hats are also a non issue, as i pointed out, previously, gold is only what you make of it. Its not the end all be all that you oh so want it to be, you only believe this because a government in the game has stamped GQ on it and provided a currency, power, and support behind it. Currency is just as much faith based as it is based on the value of the item. If you dont believe any of what i said, you may want to perform some deep studying on economics and currency.

So can we get away from the discussion that is meaningless? We can all agree that trade isnt bad, its going to happen. I believe a more polarizing issue that is being pointed out is how easily the global market occurs due to how small and insignificant the world can feel due to road networks. I honestly dont care about gold, and coins, and im tired of discussing the matter.

[Ardennesss]

You're right, let's just remove roads, charters, poritocos, and travel to hearth fire. Having to travel everywhere by foot, horse, or boat will certainly make trade more valuable. And then the remaining 20 players who don't quit will certainly spend the time it takes to travel to each other to trade goods. Current roads are an improvement over the legacy version, where you could travel anywhere on any level of the world at any time from any road that was connected. A simple solution to "discourage" traveling everywhere by roads would be to make road travel give weariness equal to 25% of what charter travel would have.

[MagicManICT]

gold has not been a currency forever, that is total bullshit. Previous worlds struggled with currency issues because gold didnt help someone.

yes and no. Gold has always been a form of currency. Pearls were the preferred form w5-7, though might be more accurate to say 6 and 7 because it wasn't established until late in w5 (which was less than six months long due to hardware errors).

I can say that there was a blueberry economy in w3. I forget who it was, but there was a guy out of Sodom (IIRC) that was selling decent gear and tools to newer players for decent blueberries. Quite a few things have been used as currency in the past as it was a barter economy until the reimplementation of the coin press w9(?).

[LostJustice]

gold has not been a currency forever, that is total bullshit. Previous worlds struggled with currency issues because gold didnt help someone. Gold serves no purpose but what purpose you give it, and that is true with coins as well. The topic isnt even about coins, and jorbtar never introduced any such currency, we created it. Again, there are take aways from this discussion, that arent related to trade, but impact the global trade market of the game.

Talking on the forums is hard, like talking to fucking rocks sometimes. Just stuff words down others throats, christ sake.

First, dont fucking what me,
they never created a currency, dont fucking lie, currency is a creation of the world, and dies with it or the supporters. Changed the world, yes, simply. But we arent here to discuss economics, and there isnt any such issue with someone forming currency. Hats are also a non issue, as i pointed out, previously, gold is only what you make of it. Its not the end all be all that you oh so want it to be, you only believe this because a government in the game has stamped GQ on it and provided a currency, power, and support behind it. Currency is just as much faith based as it is based on the value of the item. If you dont believe any of what i said, you may want to perform some deep studying on economics and currency.

So can we get away from the discussion that is meaningless? We can all agree that trade isnt bad, its going to happen. I believe a more polarizing issue that is being pointed out is how easily the global market occurs due to how small and insignificant the world can feel due to road networks. I honestly dont care about gold, and coins, and im tired of discussing the matter.

I think you miss the point of what CF currency stands for and the implementation and time required to run a market. Yes, you can create local economies with all these ideas such as natural borders, travel weariness (which honestly I think would kill player interaction and trade all together), and ect. But put world borders in and someone will make multiple hubs and try to control the economy or figure some clever way to circumvent it. As what Ardennes noted is very true. There has always been a currency regardless if it a "coin" and centralized trade on discord and forums. If someone wants the best q on the market or close to it, they will go out their way to get it and players who have it will sell it for things they want.

A currency isn't just about the "supporters". The reason why CF is successful is because the thousands of hours Tuz and other individuals have put into to create it into a community as well as a fighting force that also protects it which people over look. Look at Aurora, it had decent market but not the player strength to defend it and it fell and the currency became worthless. It had supporters even after it fell because some people wanted to recreate the market but problem is, they could never defend it. Other thing noteable, Aurora was severely damaged by things like CF. Aurora you went to for lower tier common items or curious and CF you went for quality and best tier. To throw oh it just a currency everyone uses and that it is a bad thing because it can be printed is tbh a really shitty way of arguing that topic at all. You completely missed on how it even came to be that and what was required to get it there.

Also, global markets? No it isn't travel that causes them or the fact there is centralized hubs like CF. It hours upon hours of work and grind and maintenance and the want to trade. Ardennes as an example, I have seen going out and trying to find buyers for his goods and when he finds one he trades. And his point in noting about Hats and Token trade is probably more valid than your entire statement. I don't care for gold or items. I live in a village with some of the highest tier goods and namely the same village that runs CF. Gold is worthless to me. It just an item that I pave and build Metal Cabinets with and Exquisite Chests. But Tokens are nice for carrying over worlds so they hold long term value and hats are even better since people trade multiple tokens for hats and I can look pretty nice while wearing them and better yet they cross over worlds too. It very much like a runescape party hat and bonds. Party hat is complete vanity item and it has no uses other than to show off and hold value over time.

Tbh, I think you need to study the economy of Hafen a bit more before making rash arguments especially against what Ardennes says since he is extremely active in it and tbh I agree with a lot of what he noted.

And to get back on point about PvE. This literally hasn't been a challenge really ever if you know how to handle it. Fine make them harder but I can still shoot them from a boat. Add harder bosses, ok I took them down. What else is there? Literally doesn't address anything. I think dungeons are a good way to address this issue but add more content? Literally just sprinkling sugar over a cupcake and saying it a completely different thing. You do it once and it done regardless if you take 1 hour to 1 minute to kill it or if it is difficult or easy to kill it.

[AntiBlitz]

so, you are agreeing with me? you're arguing while using my argument to argue a point that aligns with what I already said. Your argument validates what I already stated.

i dont think i need to study anything, nothing "rash" about it, its truth.

[LostJustice]

so, you are agreeing with me? you're arguing while using my argument to argue a point that aligns with what I already said. Your argument validates what I already stated.

i dont think i need to study anything, nothing "rash" about it, its truth.

No, agreeing with Ardennes. Please read. You tend to throw currency around like it nothing but it holds value because yes people put value on it but there is a reason the value is there and it isn't just as simple as oh lets print currency and say it worth something and on top of that you seem to be against any globalization which in itself, seems like a problem you have rather than others because you do not wish to compete. But in reality, you will compete at every instance in any economy.

[Ardennesss]

You're equating Haven gold to Real Life currency, where the value only exists because some higher being says it does and we take that on faith. Gold in real life, just like in haven, has value by default because of it's rarity and tangibility. Your example would make sense if the currency of the world to trade high quality goods was q10 bricks backed by "Bank of Hedgehugs." But it's not.