Satiations, global pools, hunger and how it's affected trade

[MagicManICT]

6. No common currency.

This is not, and has never been, a problem. I can point out more than a few games that don't have standardized currency that have very functional markets.

[shubla]

There is no easy way to stop bots because people will just start disguising them or something.

The point is to make botting harder - like solving complex tasks in the process.

But is there really point in that?
That would just limit advantage of botting to smaller subset of people, who would still bot a lot.
You can make quite complex bots if you just use some effort.

[bmjclark]

There is no easy way to stop bots because people will just start disguising them or something.

The point is to make botting harder - like solving complex tasks in the process.

The problem is that simply won't work. Where there's a will there's a way. Right now, the playerbase at large has access to relatively simple bots through ardenness and shublas clients. Small groups have access to bots like minesweeper mining bots which the common player will likely never get access to.

[MagicManICT]

A minesweeper AI script isn't that hard to make with a minimal of program design knowledge. I'm surprised there isn't one "publicly available."

[Fostik]

Didnt read other tread, only topic starter post.
Wanted to say that this world is quite shitty for trading in any way.
1. There are no way for fast travel at all. At w7 there were crossroads, village ports.
2. Current roadsigns and milestones cost makes travelling or trading by them absolutelly useless.
3. There are still no normal local markets in the game, with their own currency.
4. There are oceans, that makes trading possible only on your local continent. It must be very worthy trade to let you travel between continents for trade.
So, we got the situation when trading as a thing cost more time and resources, than just collecting things you need, so people are trading only with rare things, subtokens etc.

[MrBunzy]

I think a good solution would be to add more valuable things that noobs could provide. Grey clay was a good one last world, since it is at least mildly annoying to bot and huge quantities of it were required for potters clay spiraling. The potter clay nerf kindof gets rid of this, as people will only use top q grey clay for potters now, and I'm not super happy about that change.

Also road changes have totally fucked trade for things that are not super valuable. It is just not worth the travel time for insignificant nab stuff, and transporting bulk goods isn't really feasible, so noone bothers. Maybe there will be a bit more trade when a lot of ppl have 1000+ will, but nabs will never get that much will, so they kinda get fucked especially hard.

[pppp]

Minesweeper bot is relatively simple in that it deals with a single problem. Maybe variety is the way to go then. Think xp event mechanics. Yes, I am quite sure it is not a big deal to build a simple xp farm and a bot designed to automatically go through all the exercises. But then if finding rare stuff is gated behind finding other (semi)rare stuff (and still require some skill to avoid killing alts to reset, credo style) then possibly we can nerf bots a bit.
Consider following system (yes, it is per char, as much as I hate it):
Say we have 30-50 items that are considered "rare" (semi-rare or super rare). Then for each char we have a vector that represents current chances for each item (relative to global max chance). Finding that item lowers relevant value by half and at the same time increases chances of other items via a matrix. Basically V+=AxY where A is the matrix, x is matrix-vector multiplication and Y is vector of the form [0, 0,...0, k, 0, ..., 0, 0] with k at the position of found item. k is finding chance of the found item before being halved. The sum of any given column in the matrix should not exceed 0.5 because otherwise the vector will saturate over time (well, in fact "weighted average of columns applicable to any given hearthling" should not exceed 0,5). This system can, in some special cases, be seen as a state machine like: "find 2 bloated bolete to be eligible to find one pearl" but I think such a simple approach will be easily identified by smart people. Essentially all stuff should buff all other stuff, some combos more, some less. Things should not buff similar things, that is finding a bloated bolete (forageable) should significantly buff fishy eye (fishing/butchering) and cruel splinter (industry) but not glimmer moss (forageable) or cave clay (also forageable). Because current chances of <x> are involved in buff calculations, the effect of bruteforcing cruel splinter in order to buff pearl chances are somewhat mitigated (it's v at first finding, v/4 at second and v/16 at third, assuming no other rare stuff is found in-between).

The botting approach to defeat such system would be creating bots that try to bruteforce easy semi-rares, like cat gold, cruel splinter, scratched bark, death head chrysalis, etc to pump super rare chances. This can be countered with lower matrix values at relevant columns.

[dageir]

Introducing objects with no quality needed by most "recipes" , but might be a pain to bot could be a feasible path to go.

Also one could introduce regional Products. For instance a certain cheese and a certain wine from a region with some tweaks in its stats.

[wonder-ass]

I think a good solution would be to add more valuable things that noobs could provide. Grey clay was a good one last world, since it is at least mildly annoying to bot and huge quantities of it were required for potters clay spiraling. The potter clay nerf kindof gets rid of this, as people will only use top q grey clay for potters now, and I'm not super happy about that change.

Also road changes have totally fucked trade for things that are not super valuable. It is just not worth the travel time for insignificant nab stuff, and transporting bulk goods isn't really feasible, so noone bothers. Maybe there will be a bit more trade when a lot of ppl have 1000+ will, but nabs will never get that much will, so they kinda get fucked especially hard.

agree road nerf was prob one of the worst ideas of this world.

[Astarisk]

I think a good solution would be to add more valuable things that noobs could provide. Grey clay was a good one last world, since it is at least mildly annoying to bot and huge quantities of it were required for potters clay spiraling. The potter clay nerf kindof gets rid of this, as people will only use top q grey clay for potters now, and I'm not super happy about that change.

Also road changes have totally fucked trade for things that are not super valuable. It is just not worth the travel time for insignificant nab stuff, and transporting bulk goods isn't really feasible, so noone bothers. Maybe there will be a bit more trade when a lot of ppl have 1000+ will, but nabs will never get that much will, so they kinda get fucked especially hard.

agree road nerf was prob one of the worst ideas of this world.

Road nerfs kills trading. You cant have a healthy trade environment and no way to communicate and connect in a reasonable fashion.

I'm more dissapointed in the hunger system changes than anything. Last world the meta was all about 1 tapping your FEP bar -- which encouraged heavy use of pepper and quality food. If a mid tier player still had a decent set up going he could sell both. Pepper was in heavy demand, and weaker food could be carried by your own high quality pepper if need be.

Now with satiations being a big deal and time gates exist in feasting this one tap meta is going to be as strong as ever before. I don't want to eat the food anyone else produces. Quite simply its lower quality -- which means I have to eat more of it and satiate myself even harder. All I want is the highest quality food which I need to produce myself. Fortunately since the amount of food I need is much lower I'm not spending my day anymore shuffling around 160 to 240 racks of cheese a day like I did last world.

If you want a successful trading system involving food and foragables the system needs to behave much like metal spiralling. The consumption needs to be endless, every bit of food needs to matter regardless of quality. Foragables could have a place in the recipes with this variable type food system. But the outcomes need to be more fine tuned so that they give stats on foods people want -- not this seemingly random trash you currently get.