Murder buff is a gift to factions and nobody else

[VDZ]

Hermits could learn the mechanics yeah, but who are you to judge THEY HAVE TO, and day 1, or just have to leave the game ?
Even if they learn the mechanics, the "veterans" will know thoses even better than them, and if they can they will exploit some others to dig the gap.

PvP games are not hard. You are the dominant apex predator on Earth, a living human being with a human brain. You can think critically, and you can definitely learn the very simple mechanics of any PvP game. Smurfs in League are just better players than you. You seriously want to just wander into a new environment, demand it all change because you don't even want to put in the effort to figure out where you should put your effort?

Put in the few drops it takes to not suck at a shitty moba instead of wandering into a PvP game alone and whining that it's not farmville man.

Are you seriously defending smurfing? Smurfing is intentional circumvention of the game balancing mechanics that exist (the ranking system) in order to avoid worthy opponents and play only against weaker players you can easily dominate. It's a textbook example of unsportsmanlike behavior.

People improve at a game by overcoming challenges at or slightly above their skill level. They need to have enough control of the situation to understand what is going on, but be in a poor enough position that they cannot accomplish what they're trying to accomplish. They will notice where they make mistakes and try to avoid repeating those mistakes in the future. (As such, the ideal learning situation is to play against someone slightly better than you, so you keep losing but always know exactly why you lost.) When the skill gap is too big, however, the weaker player simply does not grasp the situation sufficiently to understand what they're doing wrong. They should be running away, but your more optimal inputs (less clicks), better navigation, Forager speed bonus and Bunny Slippers, and maneuvering via superior numbers (covering every direction the victim could run to) makes this not obvious as their running away is not accomplishing anything. They should be lowering their openings, but with their 10 UA and 20 AGI their restorations seem to do nothing. They could try fighting back, but they consistently deal 0 damage no matter what they do. Nothing they try makes any difference to the end result. How are they supposed to learn what the correct actions are in such a situation? Fortunately DDDsDD999 provided a great guide on the basics now, but this is known only to people active on the forum and people in direct contact with forum visitors. The game itself provides none of this info, and none of it can be learned from 3v1 ganks by experienced players with 10x-100x your stats and full combat gear.

Games should not require external resources (such as community-made forum posts) for essential survival knowledge. Haven has made great leaps in making many of its systems more understandable and accessible for new players, but PvP is still something you cannot learn in-game except from players who know how to PvP. But those PvPers seem to have zero interest in teaching players outside of their factions (and to be fair, this may partially be because there's no safe space for people to come together, especially at the start of the world), choosing only to engage sprucecaps in scenarios in which they have a massive advantage (numbers, stats, gear).

[DonVelD]

hot take: join groups 2 git gud, playing alone bad unless you don't care - and if thats the case you shouldnt complain

[MightySheep]

If there was any chance that the aggressor would die (KO) then the risk would not be taken. It's a rather simple thing, really. People don't play games like this to be challenged or to take risks. People play them for some crafting and farming stuff and some antisocial people play them to remind everyone why these libertarian fantasy worlds have extremely high attrition rates for those masochistic enough to try them. I'm not saying that as any sort of "shitty devs!" thing; they've chosen a niche over popularity and profit. It's nice that such developers still exist. (Edit: that might have sounded patronizing, but I didn't mean it to. I honestly think it's great that they're stuck to their principles. They're making the game that they want.)
Anyway, did you attack them with nettle gear with +exploration gilds while you had two baskets in your hand, or were you geared for combat with a combat deck geared for the situation? Did you give them an advanced warning to prepare for combat or did they already have half health before they realized what was happening?
I understand that you guys need to pretend that it's sporting, but you're the guys shooting deer with drones from an air conditioned room. You're not wrestling bears to the death.

I recognize my voice shouldn't be worth much, if anything. My Haven playstyle is to play a World for a few weeks or a month, if that, until I get ganked and my progress is reset, which is the Game Over screen for me. The game wouldn't exist if everyone played the way I did. Those few weeks are really fun, though.

like I said, I started in world 5, I had absolutely no idea what I was doing, half the people I ran into had absolutely no idea what they were doing, eventually I realized I can shoot rocks at them with a sling so I started shooting everyone I met and killing them

if you put half as much effort into this forum whining as into learning how to play the game you would not need to cry on the forums about pvp because you will realize just how easy this game actually is for running away from fights

theres no big pvp zergs coming to chase little hermits, chances are your average attacker is just some random solo guy who not any better than u

it doesnt matter what reason you play this game for, its a pvp game, no amount of forum typing is changing that, my playstyle is also play for a month and quit, but if you let some other guy ruin your fun when you can just defend and run away, because youre stubborn and dont want to learn how to play, its just dumb and you only have yourself to blame

[nyaanyaa]

paragraphs omitted

Eh, I don't think I'm whining. I'm talking game theory stuff. I know that whining is nectar to people with certain playstyles and I don't like feeding the trolls. It's interesting to talk about this stuff because I never get a chance to do it anywhere else. Who else would care? People here don't even care, but I can pretend they do.
I think "PvP' has certain expectations on it, mainly that the "versus" part of the acronym is implying two parties are engaged in something with at least one of them doing it intentionally for the sake of it. You could say that Haven's system qualifies because one person has the goal of killing a target and the target's goal is to maintain his character and escape. It's a type of interaction.
But is it really PvP? I wonder...
As I said earlier, no one seems to value the combat itself, it's a means to an end. The goal is not to compete, the goal is to eliminate. The other player doesn't even need to be there, people will bash an inanimate wall and have just as much fun because the goal is to penalize or remove the other player from the game. Combat is the fastest way to accomplish the goal, but not the only one. If there was a "delete all other characters" button you could craft from 50 wood then Haven would just be people chopping trees to be the first to craft and press it. Haven's system is thankfully a bit more convoluted, but in the end the people that choose the aggressive playstyle will work to get as close to that button as possible. They'll deny it, though.
For this reason Haven's combat is not PvP by my own biased definition. The PvP would be navigating the world and forming alliances and giving and receiving trust when it is it everyone's interest gameplay-wise to immediately kill anyone as it is the largest possible reward without penalty. Do you indulge in base behavior for immediate gain, or are you willing to share resources for communal gain and a shared social experience? Will that person backstab you when it's convenient? This stuff is interesting because it tests a person's personality. I still have internet friendships with people I met in Ultima Online 20 years ago because we bonded over its harsh environment of murderers, thieves, scammers, griefers and other assorted scum. Haven's mechanics really don't seem to encourage that kind of thing, however, which is a real shame.

Full disclosure: It did happen to me after I made that post in this thread. We made an error of judgment. It's kind of funny in a way since I predicted my own departure. It was 3 guys and I got caught on a tree. The hurricane took out my crops. I'm done with Haven for this year (a world is about a year, right?) but I still want to talk about player interactions and stuff for a little bit since it's still interesting to me, even if my game was terminated.
Really, though, I did want to make it winter to see if they were going to add snowfall. Good news for the devs, they've been given a year or more of extension time to impress me with that one.

[terechgracz]

hot take: join groups 2 git gud, playing alone bad unless you don't care - and if thats the case you shouldnt complain

Did you join Brodgar and became enlightened?

[VDZ]

Full disclosure: It did happen to me after I made that post in this thread. We made an error of judgment. It's kind of funny in a way since I predicted my own departure. It was 3 guys and I got caught on a tree. The hurricane took out my crops. I'm done with Haven for this year (a world is about a year, right?) but I still want to talk about player interactions and stuff for a little bit since it's still interesting to me, even if my game was terminated.
Really, though, I did want to make it winter to see if they were going to add snowfall. Good news for the devs, they've been given a year or more of extension time to impress me with that one.

Why quit? As long as your base is still safe most of your progress remains. Even if you died it's easy to build back up.

[MightySheep]

if you let some other guy ruin your fun when you can just defend and run away, because youre stubborn and dont want to learn how to play, its just dumb and you only have yourself to blame

Full disclosure: It did happen to me after I made that post in this thread. We made an error of judgment. It's kind of funny in a way since I predicted my own departure. It was 3 guys and I got caught on a tree. The hurricane took out my crops. I'm done with Haven for this year

Really, though, I did want to make it winter to see if they were going to add snowfall.

Imagine wanting to continue playing but having to stop because you decided that running in 1 direction is too difficult

Maybe just stick to single player games in general tbh

[telum12]

Maybe just stick to single player games in general tbh

[terechgracz]

Maybe just stick to single player games in general tbh

My prolem with death is it's too convoluted. Either remove murder at all and leave KO only with skill loss. Or remove kill protection and nerf death penalty.
Kill protection breaks immersion.

[Mysia]

if you let some other guy ruin your fun when you can just defend and run away, because youre stubborn and dont want to learn how to play, its just dumb and you only have yourself to blame

Full disclosure: It did happen to me after I made that post in this thread. We made an error of judgment. It's kind of funny in a way since I predicted my own departure. It was 3 guys and I got caught on a tree. The hurricane took out my crops. I'm done with Haven for this year

Really, though, I did want to make it winter to see if they were going to add snowfall.

Imagine wanting to continue playing but having to stop because you decided that running in 1 direction is too difficult

Maybe just stick to single player games in general tbh

they don't get an erection from cobbling together imgur galleries of kills in a game that are meaningless. the enjoyment of the game does not come from the actual pvp, but rather from you feeling better than other people. something which you cannot get in an actual skill based difficult pvp game without being good.

the rest of the people enjoy the industry, exploration, cooking, base building, etc. the actual content in the game xD ( which i would like to point out often does not require full attention, which is why they can be caught off guard when all of a sudden they're attacked ) the same thing people like you look to boil down and take all the fun out (bot) of so that you can maximize stats and participate in a couple 5ks before u get bored and quit xD ( i wonder why? )

im not saying you can't play the game any way you want, i'm just poitning out ur all a bunch of bitches xD