Have seperate system just for the combat, hear me out.

[Massa]

i dunno why we can't have something like

just

fucking normal

like a normal video game's combat system

[TerraSleet]

maybe one day clemins will make the guide but for now those two options are your only solutions if you want to get good.

I considered it, even started making it, spoiler and now deleted:

However, along with what was stated above and before, I came to the same realization. So I stopped and have ultimately scrapped the project. The game has so many other fundamental issues (95% self-imposed by the devs as again, stated above and before). It would be such a waste of time and energy to make a guide because as DDDsDD999 points out (the author of the only "current" combat guide) is that mechanics in this game change so often and drastically that a guide I'd make could literally be invalidated an hour later.

Not to mention, a guide requires the reader to actually want to engage in the mechanic, and I don't think most people want to go through the trouble of building a fighter only for the sake of defense. And even if they did, and read all the other scattered guides on how to fight, it all means nothing without actual legitimate practice. NOT TO MENTION, the entire reply section will be nothing but drooling idiots telling me I'm wrong, pvp bad, etc. So really, the only advice you need to get started is to really sit and ask yourself if this is something you want to do. If you come to the conclusion that this IS something you really REALLY want, then the best and quickest avenue is literally to join a group who has people who have already done the homework and just learn from them. And if you're lucky, that group might also have an indentured programmer working on a client that makes the game actually playable. (I sometimes forget how bad the state of the game is thanks to my group's client, may god have mercy on our poor programming boiz...)

Slightly related dev rant below, mostly just me venting about shit, it's long as hell, you don't have to read it.

And I also believed that the devs are trying to balance 2(generally speaking) opposing player types thing for awhile too. But honestly retrospectively it's definitely neither, they just do what they think sounds cool in whatever moment they happen to be in front of their computer. Or will just listen closely to some individuals who they keep in touch with, and end up taking the word of 1 person on any given matter instead of the larger active player base. Which don't get me wrong, wouldn't really matter, if they'd actually test the shit they add, run the idea past more people or all of us as a whole, and be open for input longer than an hour after implementation... And then when something doesn't work, most of the time they'll just leave it in, or just change it in such a way that it's unusable/unachievable that it's pointless.

And I'll be the first to say, their personal life is none of our business, but when they keep saying "We'll do better! Steams and updates galore right around the corner, we're listening!" is just lying... Like, if you can't commit to something, just don't. I've been made aware by a friend what's been going on with the devs and I wont comment on it, but there is no excuse to just lying to string us along. Just don't say anything, even being more vague about an ETA is better than giving a close ballpark estimate and not following it up + without comment.

I know I'm not really being relatable when I talk about this, but my god what have they done to siege... I know a lot of people are probably not upset with the fact that it's harder, which whatever, to each their own. But just for a moment, drop the bias and think about this more generally. Imagine if you will, they take a mechanic you love in haven [pick whichever you find most fun], and just go ahead and stick a 5 day timer on it. Why'd they do this to [x mechanic] when it worked fine before? Well, just because! Hope you enjoy spending more of your limited existence on waiting for a pointless virtual timer! It's ridiculous, and this shit happens all the time, it's like they finally find something that works and when they notice no one is complaining about it (or they are for the wrong reasons) it's like they think that something is wrong with the fact that we're enjoying ourselves.

I'm not a game dev so I can't really truly understand the difficulties with figuring this stuff out so just a disclaimer, this is just my own "uneducated" perspective. But it just seems to me they just got too ambitious about adding to the game rather than fixing it. And ignoring it didn't make the problem go away, and now haven is just a mess. Sure the mess looks cool, and some people might even enjoy it from an artistic standpoint, but anyone who buys into the mess and puts time into enjoying it eventually sees it for what it is.

It's honestly a shame, haven at it's core is a fun and interesting game, but a lot of us here right now aren't still here for that same reason. We're still here because we remember what haven used to be and/or just enjoy playing with friends. And I don't want to seem like I'm shitting on the devs because I'm being a pissy bitch about siege or the game as a whole, but haven is quite literally on it's last leg.

This is how the game dies.

Well either way I appreciate that you considered making it. I think I will join the 99% and just not bother with the competitive side of PVP, like building a dedicated fighter and such, but I will still plan/practice in advance to make losses small and the incentive to raid me as low as possible. Shame that it's like this, but the PVE aspect of haven is just so compelling to me. People keep saying this is "multiplayer Stardew Valley" but I don't see it that way. There are vastly more complicated systems involved, interconnected, esoteric, unique. Like OSRS, another of my favourite games. It reminds me of the times of 2007 RS2 when most people playing didn't know what the fuck they were doing and were just enjoying the experience of learning and exploring the game. Ignorance is bliss, in a way. It's what brings me back here constantly. H&H is bloated, messy and horribly unbalanced, but I can derive joy from optimizing and discovering what's good and what isn't. Eventually I'll hit that wall of nothing left to discover and the game becoming unfun, like with boulders or fast travel or the animal spawn system as pointed out in another thread, but I might as well enjoy the ride until I get there (and grab a sprucecap skull or two )