24 hour siege again

[SnuggleSnail]

It's selfish for peaceful bois to join a PVP game and REEE until the PVP is removed, and it's selfish for a PVPboi to join an infinite stat grinding game then REEE until it's removed. There are more people who play haven to mindlessly raise their stats than PVP by far. Destroying an entire avenue of end game for a majority so a minority can have slightly fairer fights 5% of the time is unreasonable.

Again, gear is a bigger factor in determining your power than stats, and already the thing people struggle with more.

If your primary goal is making things more fair between everybody you should talk about public accessibility to PVP client features and nothing else btw

[Halbertz]

If your primary goal is making things more fair between everybody you should talk about public accessibility to PVP client features and nothing else btw

Woah lad, was the drink button not good enough for you? Give them some time. The gnomes are already working hard enough.

fair fights

Non existent concept.

[Luno]

It is selfish for peaceful bois to join a PVP game and REEE until the PVP is removed, andit's selfish for a PVPboi to join an infinite stat grinding game then REEE until it's removed. There are more people who play haven to mindlessly raise their stats than PVP by far. Destroying an entire avenue of end game for a majority so a minority can have slightly fairer fights 5% of the time is unreasonable.

Again, gear is a bigger factor in determining your power than stats, and already the thing struggle with more.

If your primary goal is making things more fair between everybody you should talk about public accessibility to PVP client features and nothing else btw

Don't think it's fair for your to summarize my point as "REEE". Also i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that this game had stat caps in the past(except it was not specific for pvp). I could be wrong tho, as it was not me who played during that time to make such claim.
If you speak for the people and claim most people enjoy infinite stat grind more than pvp, then sure, i can't speak for the people so i can't respond to that, however, you may have noticed that there is a "pvp" before "stat/skill cap" on my argument, meaning that the infinite grind would stay, its just that past a certain point the stats would add nothing to pvp specifically.
Gear is already capped by the possible quality that is in the game, so it's not like i can ask for a cap for it since it already does have one.
And the thing about pvp client features, well, people can make pvp clients without the help from the devs. Changing the game in the way im suggesting can only be done by the devs so it's what i'd rather address them about.

Non existent concept.

Fairer fights, perhaps?

[Halbertz]

people can make pvp clients without the help from the devs.

If I fall asleep and wake up in a hundred years and I have been asked what is happening in Haven now, I will answer: they play on """ard""" client.

[SnuggleSnail]

> ruin the game for a bunch of people to make stats marginally more fair for me
> well if people don't like client advantage they should just become software developers

You cannot trust people's emotional reaction to losing.

[Massa]

we used to make displays out of each other's bodies

[MooCow]

The siege of Aurora was the /entire/ reason I started playing. Even when I was a helpless hermit just hearing about people getting FUCKED made the world feel alive/interesting/motivated me to keep playing.
The reality of conflict/human nature is that when things aren't going somebody's way they will look for excuses to cope.

[...] but It's just human nature. You see this exact same shit every world from 50%+ of fighters who play the game exclusively to fight. You cannot trust people's emotional reaction to losing.

A majority of the people who complain about haven being too brutal only ever made their account because they liked the idea of haven being brutal. It's the one draw the game has that sets it apart from the 1,000 other sandbox farming games, and I guarantee you those same people complaining things are too brutal will leave for another game if it stops being brutal.

This is probably the best response I have seen in a while, and it highlights one of the biggest difficulties in being a developer for a game like this. People often express their valid feelings in wrong and counterproductive ways. They want more good feeling, and less bad ones, without understanding that the contrast is necessary.

I have never played another game in my life that could get the blood pumping like this one. The adrenalin is unbelievable sometimes. Seeing that somebody forgot to close their gate then strait-up murdering them for it is the kind of savage hostility that made me fall in love with this game. I am sorry random dude, I know what I did was wrong
I am a random nobody, and I still have experienced plenty of excitement that is simply missing from other games.

I'll say that identity is the biggest issue here. [...] Just pick a direction and stick with it. If you want PvPers to piss off [...] then make it a point to highlight that that is the direction the game is taking. If you want people to toughen up and participate in the politics/pvp/dicking around then make it a point to reinforce that they need to get good at these things, and stop introducing these "compromises" that only manage to piss everyone off equally.

You can't please all types of players, trying to do so just results in annoying everyone. New players because again, they are getting baited into thinking this game isn't what it is, and older/pvp centric players because you keep taking toys away from them.

Thinking about Haven as a PvP or PvE game is fundamentally limiting. PvP necessitate the 'gamification' of conflict, because that IS the game. This leads to conflict becoming the default. PvE has similar obvious flaws. Haven is a game where you can choose. That's what makes it special. I honestly believe that when the siege system is set up correctly, it will feel good to everyone.

This of course excludes noobs who get their teeth kicked in for making some arcane faux pas. It will always feel bad for them, and I don't a solution to that is possible.
I do agree that there need to be more to prevent from bad messaging and new players ignoring basic safety, but that is a better topic for a different thread.

Albion's siege is the greatest!
Players defeat the province's protection node, then they destroy the outposts that control the localized recourses.
Players can't do meaningful damage to factions because the base with important stuff in it is protected by Magic McGuffins, but if you slap their peepee enough, they might get sad and quit

Sieges happen constantly because they delightfully fun interactions. Sieges are supposed to be fun! <3 <3 <3

I am glad you wrote something about Albion, I think these things are important to bring up. I don't this is a good fit for Haven though.

1. It makes fighting require, and being a hermit impossible.
2. This system is totally contrary to Haven's image as a game. Its a cozy farming sim, where all your neighbours might be are plotting to kill you
3. It wouldn't solve the problem at hand, because Sieging would still be impossible. Just collect the Magic McGuffins

Also i'm pretty sure i read somewhere that this game had stat caps in the past(except it was not specific for pvp).

You are correct. The cap was 200. The fallout was bad. People need to just trust us when we say its a bad idea. I once thought it was a good idea, but I have come to realize that I only thought that because I coveted their dedication and ability. People like SnuggleSnail are simply better than us, and probably have huge dongs

Fairer fights, perhaps?

"Fair fights" don't exist. This is just a linguistic trick that weak people use to justify being weak. I get the feeling that people complaining about combat stat caps don't even understand the mathematics behind combat. I apologize if I am mistaken.
Two groups of equal skill fight. Everything not mentioned is the same. Who wins?

Group A - 1 person with 2000 Unarmed 2000 Melee
Group B - 2 people each with 1 Unarmed 1 Melee

[vatas]

IIRC the w9 had stat cap of 300 and it was bad because it made most gameplay loops pointless once you reached it, or you end up spamming alts to that stat cap.

This is a main reason why I advocated, if this could be implemented in a way that is intuitive, that you could raise stats above the current rolling cap so you're ready when the cap is raised.

But again, the problem is that new player simply doesn't know how to fight. Allegedly just getting Rage and 10 UA is enough to KO almost all average players during the first week, and (again, allegedly) is actually one of the best ways to acquire curiosities during that time. (Does need the additional investment of Theft skill, or friend with Theft.)

Unironically, add a "Battle Royale" (or other lobby-based) mode where you can PvP fight A) without having to invest month to raise character B) using the same system the main game uses.

[MooCow]

IIRC the w9 had stat cap of 300 and it was bad because it made most gameplay loops pointless once you reached it, or you end up spamming alts to that stat cap.

This is correct. I don't know why I thought it was 200 :/

But again, the problem is that new player simply doesn't know how to fight. Allegedly just getting Rage and 10 UA is enough to KO almost all average players during the first week, and (again, allegedly) is actually one of the best ways to acquire curiosities during that time. (Does need the additional investment of Theft skill, or friend with Theft.)

This sounds about right. Although I am not even remotely close to a PvP expert, most people I have met have basically no idea about combat.

Unironically, add a "Battle Royale" (or other lobby-based) mode where you can PvP fight A) without having to invest month to raise character B) using the same system the main game uses.

Valhalla already exists

[Robben_DuMarsch]

If you expect somebody to read your 40 paragraphs of bullshit don't use 15000 superfluous adjectives and hedge every sentence. You don't seem smart, you just look like you're trying to. Retard.

Are you just angry because the other guy at your residential facility got to meet his hero and you still haven't gotten to meet me? Don't worry Snugs, I'll be around to give you that hug eventually.