Socio-Economical State of Hafen

[Kaios]

facepalming

What is you even want out of this thread? I already said myself ages ago before the last world had reset that they were no where near the point to do that because they hadn't added any content worth resetting for and yet here we are again, moving towards the exact same position and I'm quite certain you were one of the people advocating for a reset too.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

It's not just solely because of killing them, it is also because the game doesn't retain them very well even disregarding the faction of newbie hunting. However I reiterated the reasons several times. Thankfully the deal with lacking stones is being dealt with so that you can actually make a stone axe to even start playing the game. Also, fixed spawn area also was dealt (hopefully results will come) with which will help get people to groups easier. We actually have a higher player-base retained than last world. The game still is somewhat lacking in player retention outside due to a few reasons but it is now no longer the major reason.

The main problem really is that no new formula has been added to shift the dynamic of the game-flow of yet. For the most part, there isn't any new formulas that is different from legacy. I know Kingdom will shift that when it is introduced but that is still a far away matter as it is; and even after release, it will be quite a while before the bugs are ironed out. Until then, the only variable factor in the games are the players themselves.

It seems stale because most of the people that post are the ones that has played from so many worlds back. This is why I hope that new elements in the political field gets introduced like Archiplex and Ronin's factions so that way it isn't the same AD vs Dis vs Ainran vs Sodom; heck even as much as I disagree some of Robben's leadership choices. At least he is a new element introduced in world 8. and I hope KWSN starts growing.

[linkfanpc]

They did murder Willy Potter and Co.

OKAY PVP REMOVED! HORSE KILLING IS A EXTREME FELONY!

NO LONGER ABLE TO PVP!

[Garfy]

For the most part, there isn't any new formulas that is different from legacy.

This is the real issue. Although new stuff is added, and new worlds usually introduce a new mechanic or two. At the end of the day, the fundamental aspects of the game have not changed all that much.

The problem with most suggestions such as the one in this thread is simply that they wont work because the game is designed in such a way as to prevent them from working. The way the game is designed needs to be changed at a core level otherwise nothing is going to ever change.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by changing the core level. Can you elaborate on that?

[Garfy]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by changing the core level. Can you elaborate on that?

Let's take trading for example. First of all, why does trading anywhere (not just in the game) happen? It's because both parties have something the other wants or needs. When I go to buy groceries, the shop has groceries that I need, I have money they want. So we exchange these.

The problem with HnH is that it is designed in such a way that even a hermit with a little bit of time and effort will have access to everything in the game. Hermits with access to gold, silver, steel, high quality resources and more is not unheard of and the longer the world lasts, the more common it becomes. What do you trade with the guy who has everything and wants/needs nothing? He has no reason to trade, so why would he bother trading? People reach this barrier at different times (villages tend to be quicker), but given time everyone in HnH will have everything. That is just how the game is designed and it is why you only ever see trading happen between new players (such as when the world is still new).

The solution to this is not just to keep adding more stuff, because the guy who has everything also gets this new stuff and still has everything, thus no reason to trade. You cannot force people to trade with the current state of the game, you have to change the game at a more core level. The main way of doing this would be to deny people access to certain resources. Whether this is through regional resources, or character specialization or just because it requires to much time and effort most people wont access it, people will only trade when they don't have something and need/want it.

The only way to facilitate trading among players is to create this need/want, and the only way to do this is to deny players access to the things they need/want. This is the only way to make it so trading takes place in the game, but this involves changing the way the game is designed so players do not have access to everything with enough time/effort invested.

[synaris]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by changing the core level. Can you elaborate on that?

Let's take trading for example. First of all, why does trading anywhere (not just in the game) happen? It's because both parties have something the other wants or needs. When I go to buy groceries, the shop has groceries that I need, I have money they want. So we exchange these.

The problem with HnH is that it is designed in such a way that even a hermit with a little bit of time and effort will have access to everything in the game. Hermits with access to gold, silver, steel, high quality resources and more is not unheard of and the longer the world lasts, the more common it becomes. What do you trade with the guy who has everything and wants/needs nothing? He has no reason to trade, so why would he bother trading? People reach this barrier at different times (villages tend to be quicker), but given time everyone in HnH will have everything. That is just how the game is designed and it is why you only ever see trading happen between new players (such as when the world is still new).

The solution to this is not just to keep adding more stuff, because the guy who has everything also gets this new stuff and still has everything, thus no reason to trade. You cannot force people to trade with the current state of the game, you have to change the game at a more core level. The main way of doing this would be to deny people access to certain resources. Whether this is through regional resources, or character specialization or just because it requires to much time and effort most people wont access it, people will only trade when they don't have something and need/want it.

The only way to facilitate trading among players is to create this need/want, and the only way to do this is to deny players access to the things they need/want. This is the only way to make it so trading takes place in the game, but this involves changing the way the game is designed so players do not have access to everything with enough time/effort invested.

chives were added as a way to give terrains unique features, and no chives spawn anywhere near my village so thats something we'd trade for already.

i disagree on the "have everything" bit, just because you have everything doesnt mean its good enough, im sure im not the only one who traded a million times with ramones in w7 to get higher quality goods. higher quality stuff will always be desirable. as will junk metal for houses and the like. and lets not forget pearls, our universal currency.

in addition, adding more stuff (trees crops ect) WILL fix the problem in a sense because you have to take space into consideration. having everything gets more and more difficult the more that gets added. having everything will require more and more and more people to keep harvesting and maintaining everything, and the bigger you get the more attention you get, the more attention you get the more you risk raiders taking an interest in you.

tl;dr: space is an issue.

[Garfy]

You'd trade chives? Are you that lazy you cannot walk 5 minutes to find some? Because I can guarantee you now, they are only a few minutes walk away from you.

As for space, provided the world is so huge and even with 700 players online you rarely run into another player, space is not an issue. It's only an issue when you don't future proof your building designs.

[Kaios]

The combined risk of traveling around with valuable trade goods along with the likelihood of having to travel 2+ hours to do a trade is what kills it for most players. While adding further steps in order to be capable of fast travel limits certain abuses from taking place it also prevents many players from performing any meaningful trade.

Hermits and new players trading blueberries, chantrelles and other foragables has become a thing of the past because most large factions don't seem to be interested in these minor trade goods any longer. I guess this could be partly due to the hunger system but perhaps the introduction of salt would make these goods a valuable resource again. Of course, stat caps will prevent food from being valuable at all once players begin to reach that point.

[synaris]

You'd trade chives? Are you that lazy you cannot walk 5 minutes to find some? Because I can guarantee you now, they are only a few minutes walk away from you.

As for space, provided the world is so huge and even with 700 players online you rarely run into another player, space is not an issue. It's only an issue when you don't future proof your building designs.

yes i would because they're not that close. i dont have sombrebramble or whatever near me. its like a 10 minute boat ride to a SMALL patch of that terrain, and a 30 minute boatride to a decent sized patch of that terrain.

and iv run into plenty of players actually. they auto hearth every time, cept that one russian bastard. but still, i see em.