Combat Impairment

[LadyV]

I'm sorry to say some of you have it wrong. Combat is never and should never be balanced beyond certain limits. An archer should tear through most troops at range. A mounted warrior in a charge or fast moving horse archer the same. Even a heavily armed warrior on foot should defeat a lighter armed opponent. Its not about balance for every fight its about giving the option to counter your opponent. If You come for one type of fight and I am armed with your weakness as a counter then you should probably lose. Combat impairments are about new options rather than cookie cutter battles where you time this and do that. Combat should be fluid even if coordinated.

You all want fun unless it gives someone a chance to upset you and your well practiced timing of game mechanics. NO! A new player should have a chance to evade and fight. Im not saying it should be balanced so they win but if that person has an advantage in terrain, movement, vision... yes that should matter. No battle should be a sure thing no matter how skilled you are.

The three things that affect combat the most are equipment quality, morale, and skill. Morale should never be programmed in Haven as it will never reflect a players desire. Beyond this as i mentioned terrain, vision, and such should be secondary concerns.

Now the argument that these would not be fun... why? Skyrim, Fallout 4, Minecraft... all have vision limitations that if you can not see it you can not attack it. These are mainstream games that sell huge amounts of product. They are fun and integrate this seemlessly into the system. So why are these unfun aspects?

[Burinn]

I'm sorry to say some of you have it wrong. Combat is never and should never be balanced beyond certain limits. An archer should tear through most troops at range. A mounted warrior in a charge or fast moving horse archer the same. Even a heavily armed warrior on foot should defeat a lighter armed opponent. Its not about balance for every fight its about giving the option to counter your opponent. If You come for one type of fight and I am armed with your weakness as a counter then you should probably lose. Combat impairments are about new options rather than cookie cutter battles where you time this and do that. Combat should be fluid even if coordinated.

You all want fun unless it gives someone a chance to upset you and your well practiced timing of game mechanics. NO! A new player should have a chance to evade and fight. Im not saying it should be balanced so they win but if that person has an advantage in terrain, movement, vision... yes that should matter. No battle should be a sure thing no matter how skilled you are.

The three things that affect combat the most are equipment quality, morale, and skill. Morale should never be programmed in Haven as it will never reflect a players desire. Beyond this as i mentioned terrain, vision, and such should be secondary concerns.

Now the argument that these would not be fun... why? Skyrim, Fallout 4, Minecraft... all have vision limitations that if you can not see it you can not attack it. These are mainstream games that sell huge amounts of product. They are fun and integrate this seemlessly into the system. So why are these unfun aspects?

Aren't counters balances?

[Burinn]

Besides that, all of those are single player triple A titles hun. How can you even draw comparisons between them and Hafen?

[Ysh]

Now the argument that these would not be fun... why? Skyrim, Fallout 4, Minecraft... all have vision limitations that if you can not see it you can not attack it. These are mainstream games that sell huge amounts of product. They are fun and integrate this seemlessly into the system. So why are these unfun aspects?

This is joke? These are first person game. Haven is not. What logic there is with this?

[LadyV]

Aren't counters balances?

Yes to a point as I said. Its up to you however to select how you choose to fight. Thats the whole point to provide element of uncertainty that influences combat. It opens new ways to fight and opportunities to those who plan well. It also breaks the one armor/plan mentality.

[Burinn]

Aren't counters balances?

Yes to a point as I said. Its up to you however to select how you choose to fight. Thats the whole point to provide element of uncertainty that influences combat. It opens new ways to fight and opportunities to those who plan well. It also breaks the one armor/plan mentality.

Combat is already pretty uncertain. You don't know their combat deck until you're in combat. You don't know their gildings, and you can't tell what they're wearing half the time. You can't plan for the unplannable.


EDIT: Or their stats.

[LadyV]

Besides that, all of those are single player triple A titles hun. How can you even draw comparisons between them and Hafen?

Why can't you? Im not suggesting Haven become first person or single player. I am simply saying many games utilize combat limitations and they are considered fun. Just because we play Haven from a narrator perspective does not mean a helmet that impairs vision can't prevent you from initiating combat with someone behind you. You can't see them and there is no rationale just because they are on your screen your character can either.

You want the simple mechanic? It's called combat facing. Since we are talking of changes to haven why should we not request such? And yes it can be done. Whether Jorb and Loftar have the time or desire Ill leave to them. It is however not unreasonable or an unfun option.

[Burinn]

Besides that, all of those are single player triple A titles hun. How can you even draw comparisons between them and Hafen?

Why can't you? Im not suggesting Haven become first person or single player. I am simply saying many games utilize combat limitations and they are considered fun. Just because we play Haven from a narrator perspective does not mean a helmet that impairs vision can't prevent you from initiating combat with someone behind you. You can't see them and there is no rationale just because they are on your screen your character can either.

You want the simple mechanic? It's called combat facing. Since we are talking of changes to haven why should we not request such? And yes it can be done. Whether Jorb and Loftar have the time or desire Ill leave to them. It is however not unreasonable or an unfun option.

Because the example you gave draw distance limiting combat, as if Hafen doesn't have that?

[LadyV]

Aren't counters balances?

Yes to a point as I said. Its up to you however to select how you choose to fight. Thats the whole point to provide element of uncertainty that influences combat. It opens new ways to fight and opportunities to those who plan well. It also breaks the one armor/plan mentality.

Combat is already pretty uncertain. You don't know their combat deck until you're in combat. You don't know their gildings, and you can't tell what they're wearing half the time. You can't plan for the unplannable.


EDIT: Or their stats.

Thats the point combat should never be certain. Add in environment impairments and guess what you now have a situation where upsets can happen not just escapes. You give new players a chance to defend themselves or escape.

[dzielny_wojownik]

balanced combat in maxed stat. same gear is already in play. Yet again I am not hearing ANY ideas of balance in a match up between UNEQUALED stat characters.

Speed is already equal for both players (besides horses which need to be removed) and is part of the reason legacy fights in things like 2v12s the duo could actually counter-attack if they time things properly.

agreed