Stat Caps Should Return

[Granger]

Adding a stat cap would just make people who do like to make new goals quit once they reach the cap.

Repeating the same over and over dosn't make it more correct.

People will quit when the game gets boring for them. And you (as many) state Haven is suffering from 'nothing to do' except raising numbers (which is the most boring thing that a game can provide) after an initial build phase.

There is also the simple fact that the average player usually dosn't have the time to powergrind for some months and/or lacks the willingness and/or ability to shell out the funds to pay piles of tokens to get the things that are needed to perform this feat - not everyone has no life (or not enough of it). And from this stems the unwillingness of most to dive into the exceptions from 'nothing to do', like having fun in PvP, as people don't see the point in going out to waste their characters on the attempt as they see (mostly rightfully) both their character as inferior to potential opponents and the time investment to replace that character after defeat as being unreasonable.

Simply said, unbound numbers + permadeath => too high character cost => too high risk to go PvP => boring game of raising numbers for everyone.
Alternative: unbound numbers + permadeath => bot raise combat alts => not enough do that => normals see no point in PvP => boring game for everyone.

[Mario_Demorez]

Adding a stat cap would just make people who do like to make new goals quit once they reach the cap.

Repeating the same over and over dosn't make it more correct.

Not sure how to explain it any other way. Sorry.

Simply said, unbound numbers + permadeath => too high character cost => too high risk to go PvP => boring game of raising numbers for everyone.

I mean not really. If you have unbound numbers you have a farmer, a crafter, and a fighter or even multiple of the three. Losing your fighter doesn't really hurt you TOO bad, you can just feed another one using your infrastructure you already have. Now for the part where you say "Boring game of raising numbers for everyone" welllll thats not true. I do not find it boring and im sure others agree as well. You find it boring, as do others. Not everyone.

Alternative: unbound numbers + permadeath => bot raise combat alts => not enough do that => normals see no point in PvP => boring game for everyone.

botting combat alts already happens...

time investment to replace that character after defeat as being unreasonable.

I think what you really want, Granger, is respawn for your character. If you die you don't lose anything but the equipment. Maybe even keep the equipment and have the person who killed you just get a copy of it but weaker cus you know its damaged. This will prevent you from ever losing anything and having to spend time getting it back!

[Granger]

Simply said, unbound numbers + permadeath => too high character cost => too high risk to go PvP => boring game of raising numbers for everyone.

I mean not really. If you have unbound numbers you have a farmer, a crafter, and a fighter or even multiple of the three. Losing your fighter doesn't really hurt you TOO bad, you can just feed another one using your infrastructure you already have. Now for the part where you say "Boring game of raising numbers for everyone" welllll thats not true. I do not find it boring and im sure others agree as well. You find it boring, as do others. Not everyone.

Apart from many not playing multiple characters: Do you agree with having more (or other things) to do in the game, apart from raising numbers, would be a good thing?

Alternative: unbound numbers + permadeath => bot raise combat alts => not enough do that => normals see no point in PvP => boring game for everyone.

botting combat alts already happens...

Sure. And it's one of the things that makes the ones that don't do it even less motivated to go out to PvP.

[Mario_Demorez]

Apart from many not playing multiple characters: Do you agree with having more (or other things) to do in the game, apart from raising numbers, would be a good thing?

I am always a fan of more things to do in haven and hearth. I am just not a fan of having things added that are REQUIRED to do. I do not want to take a break from the game and come back to my character dead from old age cus I didn't log in for a month. I like to come back to things how I left them.

[MooCow]

As time moves forward, what is at the top will still move higher and higher. It might work for a set period of time. But I think eventually stats will be too high, and the game will still remain a game of catch up, where you don't ever really catch up.

We'll just have to see what they come up with in terms of catch up mechanics to see how it works. With catch up mechanics youll still be permanently trying to catch up, people will still be caught in the endless road of watching a number go up. Imagine the brain work of trying to figure out how to catch someone up in a few months to the top tier of stats and qualities thats taken years to achieve. That's not fair to the better players. A stat cap is fair and a successful game aspect. So much time would be taken away from developing what (most) people really want. Engaging content.

This is simple false. There are only 2 situations where it is impossible to catch up.

1. Exponential growth
2. Monopolizing of mechanics

If a player is able to use a similar (or better) path of growth as old players. THEY WILL CATCH UP. It just takes time

Lets pretend that charter growth constantly accelerates. It doesn't, but lets pretend

Code: Select all

Time    Player1 Player2 Player Gap
0       0       0       X
5       25      0       X
10      100     25      +300%
15      225     100     +125%
20      400     225     +78%
25      625     400     +56%
30      900     625     +44%
35      1225    900     +36%
40      1600    1225    +31%
45      2025    1600    +27%
50      2500    2025    +23%
55      3025    2500    +21%
60      3600    3025    +19%
65      4225    3600    +17%
70      4900    4225    +16%
75      5625    4900    +15%
80      6400    5625    +14%
85      7225    6400    +13%
90      8100    7225    +12%
95      9025    8100    +11%
100     10000   9025    +11%
105     11025   10000   +10%
110     12100   11025   +10%
115     13225   12100   +9%
120     14400   13225   +9%

The gap between player closes despite players progressing faster and faster, because you, the person catching up is also going faster and faster.
People keep saying that you can't catch up, but they are wrong. The only think that can stop people from catching up are localized resources, because they can be monopolized.

Every once if a while there is a player that says "Hey, I actually did catch up!", and people act like they are lying, or the cheated. If the reason you want stat caps is to enable people to catch up, I want you to know that it is already possible.

[discospaceman]

As time moves forward, what is at the top will still move higher and higher. It might work for a set period of time. But I think eventually stats will be too high, and the game will still remain a game of catch up, where you don't ever really catch up.

We'll just have to see what they come up with in terms of catch up mechanics to see how it works. With catch up mechanics youll still be permanently trying to catch up, people will still be caught in the endless road of watching a number go up. Imagine the brain work of trying to figure out how to catch someone up in a few months to the top tier of stats and qualities thats taken years to achieve. That's not fair to the better players. A stat cap is fair and a successful game aspect. So much time would be taken away from developing what (most) people really want. Engaging content.

This is simple false. There are only 2 situations where it is impossible to catch up.

1. Exponential growth
2. Monopolizing of mechanics

If a player is able to use a similar (or better) path of growth as old players. THEY WILL CATCH UP. It just takes time

Lets pretend that charter growth constantly accelerates. It doesn't, but lets pretend

Code: Select all

Time    Player1 Player2 Player Gap
0       0       0       X
5       25      0       X
10      100     25      +300%
15      225     100     +125%
20      400     225     +78%
25      625     400     +56%
30      900     625     +44%
35      1225    900     +36%
40      1600    1225    +31%
45      2025    1600    +27%
50      2500    2025    +23%
55      3025    2500    +21%
60      3600    3025    +19%
65      4225    3600    +17%
70      4900    4225    +16%
75      5625    4900    +15%
80      6400    5625    +14%
85      7225    6400    +13%
90      8100    7225    +12%
95      9025    8100    +11%
100     10000   9025    +11%
105     11025   10000   +10%
110     12100   11025   +10%
115     13225   12100   +9%
120     14400   13225   +9%

The gap between player closes despite players progressing faster and faster, because you, the person catching up is also going faster and faster.
People keep saying that you can't catch up, but they are wrong. The only think that can stop people from catching up are localized resources, because they can be monopolized.

Every once if a while there is a player that says "Hey, I actually did catch up!", and people act like they are lying, or the cheated. If the reason you want stat caps is to enable people to catch up, I want you to know that it is already possible.

This is the fantasy land I'm talking about. The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category. You can keep throwing math and pretending like you're such a pro player at this scandanavian cookie clicker mess of a game, but in the end, the premise just doesn't work.

There's no skill in the grind. Just time. FFS, your code would have it on the X axis. Stop trying.

[Mario_Demorez]

This is the fantasy land I'm talking about. The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category. You can keep throwing math and pretending like you're such a pro player at this scandanavian cookie clicker mess of a game, but in the end, the premise just doesn't work.

There's no skill in the grind. Just time. FFS, your code would have it on the X axis. Stop trying.

Lets break this down.

The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category.

No one is assuming the average player has as much time as the top players. Also, you can spend 2 hours every 2 days and be in the top percentage of the game, maybe not the top 1%.

You can keep throwing math and pre...

Calm your tits bro, its a discussion. No one here has said they're a pro player. Every post you have uploaded starts with some pointless statement about the previous poster, one sentence that is on topic, then another random statement about the previous poster.

There's no skill in the grind. Just time.

Skillful enough to plan their time where they can be decent at a game that is time-based. Everything is based on time. How about you leave your fantasy land and come to reality.

[discospaceman]

This is the fantasy land I'm talking about. The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category. You can keep throwing math and pretending like you're such a pro player at this scandanavian cookie clicker mess of a game, but in the end, the premise just doesn't work.

There's no skill in the grind. Just time. FFS, your code would have it on the X axis. Stop trying.

Lets break this down.

The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category.

You would struggle to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel. Not really sure why you can't understand where we're coming from here.

[Mario_Demorez]

This is the fantasy land I'm talking about. The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category. You can keep throwing math and pretending like you're such a pro player at this scandanavian cookie clicker mess of a game, but in the end, the premise just doesn't work.

There's no skill in the grind. Just time. FFS, your code would have it on the X axis. Stop trying.

Lets break this down.

The glaring assumption that the average player has anywhere near the time to commit as the top players in any given category.

You would struggle to pour water out of a boot if the instructions were on the heel. Not really sure why you can't understand where we're coming from here.

Haha. You did not even let me fix my post and you proved it right!

[Granger]

Apart from many not playing multiple characters: Do you agree with having more (or other things) to do in the game, apart from raising numbers, would be a good thing?

I am always a fan of more things to do in haven and hearth. I am just not a fan of having things added that are REQUIRED to do. I do not want to take a break from the game and come back to my character dead from old age cus I didn't log in for a month. I like to come back to things how I left them.

Then you're unable to grasp that your character decayed relative to the rest (that continued the endless grind) and are now permanently behind as the timegates in the game prevent closing that gap.