Murder buff is a gift to factions and nobody else

[DonVelD]

Did you join Brodgar and became enlightened?

i'm more of a bash all the shit brodgar has kind of guy - so many levels beyond that, retard

[MightySheep]

the rest of the people enjoy the industry, exploration, cooking, base building, etc. the actual content in the game xD ( which i would like to point out often does not require full attention, which is why they can be caught off guard when all of a sudden they're attacked ) the same thing people like you look to boil down and take all the fun out (bot) of so that you can maximize stats and participate in a couple 5ks before u get bored and quit xD ( i wonder why? )

Where did I make any judgements about any of that? if anything Id argue most pvpers enjoy the rest of the game more than most shitty hermits, they are usually the ones doing big PvE markets with fancy colored houses and have the best mining, the best cooking, the most exploration

I dont care why you chose to play the game, but its just a fact that if you do play this game, and you willingly chose not to learn how to defend yourself and then you get upset about someone KOing you and taking your things, you are dumb. There's no mental gymnastics argument you can make to tell me why its not dumb, it just is.

You yourself got KOd about 2 minutes distance from your hermitage, you managed to run about 10 tiles. If you could just run in a straight line and defend for literally 2 minutes you would not lose anything.

[Kaios]

lol the combat mechanics themselves still suck ass anyways, if you enjoy it good for you but don’t blame other players for not wasting time on that garbage when stats and water continue to matter most

[nyaanyaa]

Imagine wanting to continue playing but having to stop because you decided that running in 1 direction is too difficult
Maybe just stick to single player games in general tbh

I didn't say I wanted to keep playing the game, I said I wanted to keep talking about the nature of Haven's player interaction systems. My character lost. I moved on.
I know the powergamer move is to convert everything to neon squares so it doesn't happen, but I like seeing the trees. It makes navigating a bit confusing at times, but it's worth it to me for the general atmosphere of not playing an Atari game. There was a log and it was positioned in a way where I got stuck on a tree when I took a rash action to avoid it. People don't make smart decisions seconds after surprise attacks. If they did, well, people would be more hesitant to gank since as I've said repeatedly combat is not the goal of the aggressor. If there was any reasonable chance that I could have reversed the situation combat never would have started.
I could have lied and said I crashed or I had my hand down my pants fapping to kill vids on The Moot or something if I cared about my reputation among the dregs.
...
And you know what would have happened if the attackers made the same mistake? Absolutely nothing. There wasn't any risk involved, it was all loaded onto my end of the scale.

if anything Id argue most pvpers enjoy the rest of the game more than most shitty hermits,

This is true, although it's hard to say for sure. You could say that they certainly enjoy gaming the system more than anyone else, since there's a tangible benefit in doing so. Some guy growing crops and tending to animals isn't going to care about getting ql5000 swords.
It could be that they do it the most because they're required to do it at extreme lengths for every advantage possible. I can't imagine organizing bots or camping alts at resource nodes is fun. This is indeed a grinding game where you go to increasing lengths to gain stats, but there are fun ways to do it and then there's the people with spreadsheets and bot armies. Maybe they're having fun, I don't know, but it doesn't feel like it to me.

[WowGain]

I'm still new to this game

these six words put next to a dunning-krueger graph can sum up this entire thread

[Zao]

Permadeath open world pvp is what gives value to things in this game. Stuff should be dangerous.

[Sevenless]

Permadeath open world pvp is what gives value to things in this game. Stuff should be dangerous.

Vast majority of PvPers do not play with permadeath because they understand the mechanics behind it. They still play and enjoy the game just fine.

[terechgracz]

Permadeath open world pvp is what gives value to things in this game. Stuff should be dangerous.

You're wrong. Permadeath is cringe. Permadeath gives no value to anything. Permadeath effectively removes newbies ability to fight back and learn. Which over time leads to worse PvP.
Other bad mechanic is drinking 75L of water during PvP encounter. Maybe just buff water so 1L is worth 20L in terms of stamina gained. Also introduce new wound after drinking too much water.

[Clemins]

Permadeath open world pvp is what gives value to things in this game. Stuff should be dangerous.

You're wrong. Permadeath is cringe. Permadeath gives no value to anything. Permadeath effectively removes newbies ability to fight back and learn. Which over time leads to worse PvP.
Other bad mechanic is drinking 75L of water during PvP encounter. Maybe just buff water so 1L is worth 20L in terms of stamina gained. Also introduce new wound after drinking too much water.

You know, fun fact, we were all sprucecaps at one point. I used to be scared of the PvP combat, hell, even PvE combat once upon a time. The difference is, I took some time to actually learn how to PvE, and then onto PvP. Initially as a self defense tool, but after awhile I actually started to really like the combat in Haven. Don't let your fear dictate what you can and can't do. Permadeath isn't even really a thing anymore, numens exist, inherenting exists, burying body's exists. With all that, you get back something like 80% of your stats AND a reset hunger bar. Most current haven "pvpers" learned how to pvp while most of these features didnt exist or weren't as forgiving as they are now. I suggest learning how to defend yourself or play something else if the mechanics in haven bother you that much.

Side note, I also don't like the copious water drinking and definitely wouldn't mind some adjustments so I dont have to carry more that my bodyweight in water everywhere.

[terechgracz]

You know, fun fact, we were all sprucecaps at one point. I used to be scared of the PvP combat, hell, even PvE combat once upon a time. The difference is, I took some time to actually learn how to PvE, and then onto PvP. Initially as a self defense tool, but after awhile I actually started to really like the combat in Haven. Don't let your fear dictate what you can and can't do. Permadeath isn't even really a thing anymore, numens exist, inherenting exists, burying body's exists. With all that, you get back something like 80% of your stats AND a reset hunger bar.

You miss my point. A lot of people in this thread misses my point. I never said that stat losing is bad. I always said death is bad. I even proposed that KO should lower your stats but with death removed alltogether.
Just imagine what happens after you die. You have to go to the character creating room which is place you want to leave as fast as possible, you have to relearn all skills, you have to rediscover every ingredient, you have to relearn all combat moves. After death stats are your least problem. If you play with one character you have to replay game from beginning! It is unfun, because haven is too monotone game. It's too bold to assume that it would be fun to go through beginning. Look at Dwarf Fortress - losing is fun there, because no beginning is the same, you can lose multiple times and go back to this game. Only when it's early world its fun to be starting playing haven.
You mentioned numens, inheriting and burying bodies - sorry, but I consider theese cringe mechanics.

Death just causes too much lag. I will repeat myself. Remove 20% LP/FEP after KO. Give from 25% to 75%(based on comparision of KO'er and KO'ed total LP/FEP) of removed LP/FEP from KO'ed to KO'er in form of special food and curio(like skulls). Causes death much less cringe(there is no death in my ideal haven). Overall this makes Haven more dangerous. But you still have same character in game! Spruces probably won't cry as much as now.