A frank discussion on pvp

[Dawidio123]

What counts as a victory in that scenario? Is it the fact we caused the enemy to leave, or did we lose because we lost more resources after the fight?
If this was a sport, we would have won, if this was real life, then we certainly lost.

Well ig it depends on what's your objective. Most people who play this game for pvp play for the fun of it. It's fun to KO someone bcs you pulled off a nice opk into cleave on someone out of position. If your objective is just to make people leave ig that's another topic which i won't go into becausae i don't get it, I find it fucking tedious to run away and sos the people chasing me with no callouts or coordination involved.

I honestly think if you KO more people you win the fight, even if you lose the objective, but i really don't care who won as long as I had fun.

It's same as the siege thing, you guys think you won because you repelled the attack which is fair (or well, the plundering ig, because we did breach the outer wall). We think we won because we KO'd a whole lot more of you, caused A LOT of damage to your village and took basically close to 0 loses (other than the 2-3 KOs). It's debatable and we don't really argue with robben or whoever bcs it's pointless arguing about who won, even between factions after a fight you get the usual bullshit of "OH YOU HAD MORE PEOPLE", "WELL YOU HAD BETTER GEAR", "WELL AKSHUALLY WE KOD YOUR TITAN EVEN THO YOU KOD HALF OUR SQUAD", it's almost never clear who is the winner, and the best way is to just don't give a fuck and only care about the fact if you had fun.

[HasseKebab]

Both options already exist. Try stinging. How do you think swordboys deal their damage?

Sword people dont deal damage though, dealing like 20 damage compared to 80 with b12 cleave is just kind of not comparable at any opening.

Yeah because its all about chip damage. Sure you deal 20 damage (or 3x more with a cutblade) but you blast them all the time cuz of low Cooldown. What's the issue? You can also open them just enough so a cleave boy swoops in and deals a chonk of damage?

if your goal is to do chip damage, you're better off just playing b12 because you can get the same outcomes from just spamming kitos and have better outcomes when people have big openings for which you have a b12 to cleave with instead of dealing like 20% of the damage you could've potentially dealt with a b12 cleave over your shitty sword.
If you want to open people with sting you're better off with just running a single handed weapon so you're not running around with a 2.5s cd every time you do a sting in which case you just lose any kind of relevance and can be ignored by the enemy team since you'll never pose a threat to KO anyone from being on a big opening, swords just blow big time compared to just kito flex cleave b12 lol

[DonVelD]

if your goal is to do chip damage, you're better off just playing b12 because you can get the same outcomes from just spamming kitos and have better outcomes when people have big openings for which you have a b12 to cleave with instead of dealing like 20% of the damage you could've potentially dealt with a b12 cleave over your shitty sword.
If you want to open people with sting you're better off with just running a single handed weapon so you're not running around with a 2.5s cd every time you do a sting in which case you just lose any kind of relevance and can be ignored by the enemy team since you'll never pose a threat to KO anyone from being on a big opening, swords just blow big time compared to just kito flex cleave b12 lol

Thats absolutely not true, like 70% of my village runs swords and they kick ass anyway. Who gives a shit if you lose CD with a cutblade if you deal triple the damage? It's basically something between a 1hsword and b12

[overtyped]

What counts as a victory in that scenario? Is it the fact we caused the enemy to leave, or did we lose because we lost more resources after the fight?
If this was a sport, we would have won, if this was real life, then we certainly lost.

Well ig it depends on what's your objective. Most people who play this game for pvp play for the fun of it. It's fun to KO someone bcs you pulled off a nice opk into cleave on someone out of position. If your objective is just to make people leave ig that's another topic which i won't go into becausae i don't get it, I find it fucking tedious to run away and sos the people chasing me with no callouts or coordination involved.

I honestly think if you KO more people you win the fight, even if you lose the objective, but i really don't care who won as long as I had fun.

Under that criteria, we have never won a fight against faction players.

During the fight over Whatever Bay, and the eventual repelling, the players didn't really mind that we took many many many more losses in the fights, and got nothing in return besides surviving. For the faction fighters they made away like bandits, with barely a ko on their side.

I will say frankly, that if we didn't have SoS, which allowed us to push you away, then we probably wouldn't have an idol right now. That isn't to say SoS should stay the way it is, but if victory for pvpers is getting more heavy wounding ko's and kills, then perhaps there should be some tradeoffs for having that ability?

[Dawidio123]

...

Cutblade really does need some love to be good. Parry is funny to use but it's worse than bloodlust, damage is just a bit worse than b12 (ig range is better? eh), and you have to go hybrid anyways bcs using qb or sting instead of kito+flex is retarded with the cd increase. At that point just go b12 unless you are like me and like the larp of the big sword (its so fucking cool). I'd really like some sword specific stances that make cutblade not garbage but also doesn't make them op af (maybe make combat med hybrid stance so it takes highest uac/melee instead of just uac).

[HasseKebab]

if your goal is to do chip damage, you're better off just playing b12 because you can get the same outcomes from just spamming kitos and have better outcomes when people have big openings for which you have a b12 to cleave with instead of dealing like 20% of the damage you could've potentially dealt with a b12 cleave over your shitty sword.
If you want to open people with sting you're better off with just running a single handed weapon so you're not running around with a 2.5s cd every time you do a sting in which case you just lose any kind of relevance and can be ignored by the enemy team since you'll never pose a threat to KO anyone from being on a big opening, swords just blow big time compared to just kito flex cleave b12 lol

Thats absolutely not true, like 70% of my village runs swords and they kick ass anyway.

Have you considered its because of the 30% of your village you're kicking ass and not because of the 70%, think about why 30% of the population is doing more than 50% of the damage

[HasseKebab]

...

Cutblade really does need some love to be good. Parry is funny to use but it's worse than bloodlust, damage is just a bit worse than b12 (ig range is better? eh), and you have to go hybrid anyways bcs using qb or sting instead of kito+flex is retarded with the cd increase. At that point just go b12 unless you are like me and like the larp of the big sword (its so fucking cool). I'd really like some sword specific stances that make cutblade not garbage but also doesn't make them op af (maybe make combat med hybrid stance so it takes highest uac/melee instead of just uac).

If they fixed the way Parry counts its opening on the opponent it would be so much better of a move and i think that something that really needs to happen if we want to make other strategies more viable tbh.

[DonVelD]

What counts as a victory in that scenario? Is it the fact we caused the enemy to leave, or did we lose because we lost more resources after the fight?
If this was a sport, we would have won, if this was real life, then we certainly lost.

Well ig it depends on what's your objective. Most people who play this game for pvp play for the fun of it. It's fun to KO someone bcs you pulled off a nice opk into cleave on someone out of position. If your objective is just to make people leave ig that's another topic which i won't go into becausae i don't get it, I find it fucking tedious to run away and sos the people chasing me with no callouts or coordination involved.

I honestly think if you KO more people you win the fight, even if you lose the objective, but i really don't care who won as long as I had fun.

Under that criteria, we have never won a fight against faction players.

During the fight over Whatever Bay, and the eventual repelling, the players didn't really mind that we took many many many more losses in the fights, and got nothing in return besides surviving. For the faction fighters they made away like bandits, with barely a ko on their side.

I will say frankly, that if we didn't have SoS, which allowed us to push you away, then we probably wouldn't have an idol right now. That isn't to say SoS should stay the way it is, but if victory for pvpers is getting more heavy wounding ko's and kills, then perhaps there should be some tradeoffs for having that ability?

Or just recovering from death/wounds should be less harsh instead? The system is pretty balanced, why change that for potentially the worse?

[Dawidio123]

I honestly think if you KO more people you win the fight, even if you lose the objective, but i really don't care who won as long as I had fun.
Under that criteria, we have never won a fight against faction players.

During the fight over Whatever Bay, and the eventual repelling, the players didn't really mind that we took many many many more losses in the fights, and got nothing in return besides surviving. For the faction fighters they made away like bandits, with barely a ko on their side.

I will say frankly, that if we didn't have SoS, which allowed us to push you away, then we probably wouldn't have an idol right now. That isn't to say SoS should stay the way it is, but if victory for pvpers is getting more heavy wounding ko's and kills, then perhaps there should be some tradeoffs for having that ability?

Well there is a tradeoff Bob, the tradeoff is that it takes a whole lot of skill to pull this shit off. And btw we didnt all run Cleave deck back there, A LOT ran sos bcs we knew it's better in zerg fights with some fun included bcs we wanted the KOs (i'll let you figure that out). What let us get the KOs (and basically wreck you in the first fight even tho we were ounumbered 1:2-3) was coordination and not running around aimlessly, if you check the Clemins video you can see me in a position where competent pvpers would've gotten me KO'd in an instant.

[overtyped]

why change that for potentially the worse?

That's the million dollar question. Would it have been considered worse or better if you got all those ko's and our idol too, because we are a faction of noobs playing for fun, aren't that sweaty, but definitely can't push you away without SoS?

Should the cake be haveth and eateth too?