Make in-store items purchasable with tokens

[Kaios]

Convenience items do give economic advantage and are inevitably P2W. Look at Salem's tailor cotton cleaner ot hunter knife which gave small economical advantage accumulating over time. That kind of stuff is a no.

Exactly, I’m not sure why it’s so difficult for some to understand that. Sub tokens fall in to this category because not only do they provide subscription time which offers significant bonuses over non-sub players, but they also create easy access to a method of RMT available to any players that may have otherwise not considered participating in RMT at all. It’s bad for players, it’s bad for developers that care about more than just money and it is absolutely bad for this game.

[MagicManICT]

Exactly, I’m not sure why it’s so difficult for some to understand that. Sub tokens fall in to this category because not only do they provide subscription time which offers significant bonuses over non-sub players, but they also create easy access to a method of RMT available to any players that may have otherwise not considered participating in RMT at all. It’s bad for players, it’s bad for developers that care about more than just money and it is absolutely bad for this game.

Then you should argue that any form of convenience attached to a subscription (or the account verification) is bad for the game. The tokens are merely a means to allow players with money (rich Americans, for example) to give it to players without (poor Eastern Europeans, as another example) in a legitimate, in-game means. When used this way, it's actually good for the game as it's the means by which the developers can afford to keep making the game instead of quitting due to lack of funds.

[Kaios]

Then you should argue that any form of convenience attached to a subscription (or the account verification) is bad for the game. The tokens are merely a means to allow players with money (rich Americans, for example) to give it to players without (poor Eastern Europeans, as another example) in a legitimate, in-game means. When used this way, it's actually good for the game as it's the means by which the developers can afford to keep making the game instead of quitting due to lack of funds.

The convenience bonuses provided by subscription and verification are the incentives to buy those things, no one would purchase a subscription if all it did was charge you money and nothing more other than people who are already willing to donate. Tokens are simply a by-product of this model of payment, you could eliminate them completely from the game and instead allow gifting of subscription and verification to another account and achieve the same effect. The only and key difference being there is no longer a "physical" aspect of subscription time within the game world.

[MagicManICT]

So what, exactly, is the difference between having a game representation of that action (the token) and not having one? The effect is still the same--money for digital goods.

[Kaios]

So what, exactly, is the difference between having a game representation of that action (the token) and not having one? The effect is still the same--money for digital goods.

I explained the difference and it's that very action of associating an in-game item with a real world monetary value that influences the economy negatively, yes they are both digital goods but through one model the developers don't set in stone a real money price with which can be used to compare the value of all other available goods.

If you had ever played ArcheAge it is in fact very similar to their APEX model and players experience the exact same issues in how APEX impacted their economy. In ArcheAge, APEX can be sold to other players through the player market or it can be consumed to provide credits usable in the cash shop and so a reasonable person would agree that this is indeed a pay-to-win scenario different from simply purchasing credits via the store and using them or gifting them. This created two reasons for purchasing APEX, to consume for credits (which one could simply buy through the store anyways) or to stock and sell during a time at which they are most valued either through in-game methods or otherwise.

Essentially, you are creating a new stock that has no other purpose but to be traded between players, and an artificial currency in a game that is supposed to allow any player the freedom to create a currency of their choosing does not exactly make much sense nor does it have any net positive effect beyond being a source of revenue. If this were some cookie cutter MMO there might be a place for such a model but it is not, it is a sandbox game that requires a rather significant level of investment and harsh implications relating to that investment and to allow any person the opportunity to dump hundreds or thousands of dollars in to a virtual currency that completely changes the dynamic of the economy should never be allowed to occur in the first place.

[MagicManICT]

I explained the difference and it's that very action of associating an in-game item with a real world monetary value that influences the economy negatively, yes they are both digital goods but through one model the developers don't set in stone a real money price with which can be used to compare the value of all other available goods.

I'd break out the economics textbook on you, but it's been 20 years since college, so I've forgotten more of it than I care to dig back into. I'd dig into numbers if I had access to them, too. The simple fact is that you're talking out your ass on this matter, and the minimal amount of difference it makes would either be made up in "black market" trading and lost transactions, thus a total net of lost income for the devs.

Better people than I have done the research and studies. They're out there on game dev websites and marketing publications.

[Kaios]

I'd explain how you are incorrect but I don't actually know what I'm talking about either so I'll just tell you that you're wrong and leave it there

hey great post dude, what is incorrect about anything I said? I'm giving you a real example that you can go look in to if you really wanted and compare the two scenarios and determine the similarities, if you feel there are any, for yourself.

[MagicManICT]

have you ever done the research on the economics of f2p games, etc etc? I'm guessing that no, you haven't, and shouldn't be posting here, either. I really don't feel like taking the 5 minutes more out of my day to post what can easily be found on the internet on sites like gamasutra.com. You can take your "feelings" of what is and isn't good for the game out of such equations if you can't substantiate your statements of why it is bad or isn't bad. I feel like the Earth is flat, but it doesn't make it true.

[Kaios]

You don't need to be an economics major to use your brain or to make comparisons between payment models, I've explained my reasoning fairly well and provided an example (it's not the only example, either) and you are just saying no that's wrong.

The title of this thread is "Make in-store items purchasable with tokens" but why is that even necessary? Why do you think a player would ask for such a change to be made to tokens? I'm sure it's so they can get all the hats for their fancy hat collection and they have nothing else in mind.

[Ants]

You don't need to be an economics major to use your brain or to make comparisons between payment models, I've explained my reasoning fairly well and provided an example (it's not the only example, either) and you are just saying no that's wrong.

The title of this thread is "Make in-store items purchasable with tokens" but why is that even necessary? Why do you think a player would ask for such a change to be made to tokens? I'm sure it's so they can get all the hats for their fancy hat collection and they have nothing else in mind.

It's so they have something else to spend tokens on. Like I said earlier you can only spend 20 tokens at a time on one account, so the best traders end up with more tokens than they know what to do with. We need some kind of token sink, even if it's not turning them into general store credit.