Stat Caps Should Return

[Mario_Demorez]

Then you're unable to grasp that your character decayed relative to the rest (that continued the endless grind) and are now permanently behind as the timegates in the game prevent closing that gap.

I would not say I do not grasp it. I understand if you take it all to a relative point of your choosing. You take two players and compare them together. Player 1 starts Jan 1st and plays for 6 months with no breaks. Player 2 starts the same day but stops the third month and comes back after a 3 month long break. Both players are back in the game. If I consider that Player 1 is stationary point and all other players are moving relatively to player 1's progress then ya, player 2 decreases in progression, or starts to move further and further away from the relative point. The problem with that is that I consider Player 2 is what should be the relative point since the problem is based on them. When player one stop moving he does not lose progress, he just falls behind another player that continues playing. That distance between them does increase while Player 2 is away, I understand that. However, I also understand that increasing quality from 10 to 100 is easy compared to 1500 to 1600 because of the games mechanics. Progression slows down as you get higher numbers meaning that people that are behind have it easier to raise quality and it allows them to raise 100 points of quality of their old stuff in less time than it takes the people in the lead to raise the same amount. I just hold the belief that if you have to people and one stops playing the game for a set amount of time he shouldn't come back at the same level as the player who kept playing. I understand there are people who would have more fun if they could easily get to the top since no one could progress at a certain point, but I also understand once you make it where people cant progress anymore in a game that they go play another game. They might kill themselves and repeat the game a couple of times but they will eventually get bored of doing the same thing over and over and since its a single world with permanent effects that way of playing doesn't really work, one day you might fish up the same q1000 carrot you got in a past life.

Also, do you guys understand that it is possible to catch up in the world? There has not been a world where some one was not able to catch back up yet, so why are you guys making this argument as if it has happened? Why don't you all complain about the pointless time gates that are in the game instead? Why change the game whole premise on quality being infinite instead of changing the time gates to more reasonable time restraints?

[Granger]

I just hold the belief that if you have to people and one stops playing the game for a set amount of time he shouldn't come back at the same level as the player who kept playing.

There's no disagreement on that.

The math behind the current mechanics makes it impossible for a returning character to reach (or even outperform) a character that kept playing - certainly under the constraint that both have the same knowledge about the game, same amount of time they can sink into it while being active and access to the same resources (in terms of access to localized resources, mob spawn points, ...). Simply from the returning character being behind in industry - resulting in worse curios/food, resulting in less gains than what the character which kept playing keeps continuously absorbing - the outcome is determined: returning character is always behind unless getting access to resources that are unavailable to the continuing character, which is an unreasonable expectation and the reality is likely more the opposit (as a returning character has an information deficit about the game world, potentially about mechanics that have been introduced while he took a break and likely the claims he had on interesting stuff have expired).

That's the issue and the results can be seen here or here.

Why change the game whole premise on quality being infinite [...]?

Because of the opinion that quality (and characters) being infinite being the main cause of problems with player retention (and attracting new ones) outside of a world reset event?

[Aceb]

Why change the game whole premise on quality being infinite [...]?

Because of the opinion that quality (and characters) being infinite being the main cause of problems with player retention (and attracting new ones) outside of a world reset event?

What if this is a false. Did You question that? Have You try to see it from this point of view?
Player retention is complicated thing that might be turned into simplistic answer as "infinite growth and boredom" but it will never be a simple answer as long as jorbtar won't fuck it up. It's complicated matter.

Infinite is not infinite. It's just a score, that put You on the scoreboard that everybody can't see but know it is there. Also, it's hard to say it's infinite because all know, that another reset will happen in far future as long as this game is in eternal alpha. It's a race who is more patient and can muster more.

Also, I have this feeling for longer time that many people from both barricades try to be heroes here, forgetting that team effort is required and almost most of You forget about that factor, that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOUSED TO BE ALONE, that is, if You want be the "cool-relevant-kid".

[Granger]

Why change the game whole premise on quality being infinite [...]?

Because of the opinion that quality (and characters) being infinite being the main cause of problems with player retention (and attracting new ones) outside of a world reset event?

What if this is a false. Did You question that? Have You try to see it from this point of view?

I don't think it is. Yes and yes.

[discospaceman]

Why change the game whole premise on quality being infinite [...]?

Because of the opinion that quality (and characters) being infinite being the main cause of problems with player retention (and attracting new ones) outside of a world reset event?

What if this is a false. Did You question that? Have You try to see it from this point of view?
Player retention is complicated thing that might be turned into simplistic answer as "infinite growth and boredom" but it will never be a simple answer as long as jorbtar won't fuck it up. It's complicated matter.

Infinite is not infinite. It's just a score, that put You on the scoreboard that everybody can't see but know it is there. Also, it's hard to say it's infinite because all know, that another reset will happen in far future as long as this game is in eternal alpha. It's a race who is more patient and can muster more.

Also, I have this feeling for longer time that many people from both barricades try to be heroes here, forgetting that team effort is required and almost most of You forget about that factor, that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOUSED TO BE ALONE, that is, if You want be the "cool-relevant-kid".

We question this game premise because it isn't working, and want to see this game be more successful and have more players. Successful games have stat caps or no stats at all. This game is broken for the average player, and while it might subsist on its broken premise, it most certainly has not and will not grow because it isn't possible with this mechanic.

Think of most MMO games. There are stats there, but every now and then a new chapter comes and raises them a bit. I see no reason that couldn't work here, with seasons or something. We're not here to propose solutions, but to raise the issue.

[Aceb]

We question this game premise because it isn't working, and want to see this game be more successful and have more players. Successful games have stat caps or no stats at all. This game is broken for the average player, and while it might subsist on its broken premise, it most certainly has not and will not grow because it isn't possible with this mechanic.

Think of most MMO games. There are stats there, but every now and then a new chapter comes and raises them a bit. I see no reason that couldn't work here, with seasons or something. We're not here to propose solutions, but to raise the issue.

First of all, Haven is not typical MMO and if You think 2 devs can relatively often push enough patches to rise statcap, You are wrong.
Second of all, "succesful" my bullshit. Statcap or not it is not a factor if it will be succesfull. If You want to play this game then hear this out. Game called "Cryofall" had more players when it was in beta than it has now (less than haven). The topic is similar, theme is different. You know what? Most of streamers and player leave the game once hitting the cap and discovering everything. THE SAME WILL HAPPEN TO HAFEN ON STATCAP.

[Mario_Demorez]

successful games have stat caps or no stats at all

First off, the reason this game has such a low population is not because of a lack of a stat cap or it having stats. It’s because of its high learning curve, non-existent advertisement, small dev team, and multiple other factors. This game being a perma death game is more of a reason for it not being a “successful” game than its lack of a stat cap.

Second, sure I guess this statement is true. But also, successful games also don’t have stat caps and have stats. Diablo 3 for example. A quick google search shows that multiple games are well off and have infinite stat gains.

[Granger]

This game being a perma death game is more of a reason for it not being a “successful” game than its lack of a stat cap.

It's the combination of both, together with open PvP - these three together are 'no, thanks but no' for most.

Second, sure I guess this statement is true. But also, successful games also don’t have stat caps and have stats. Diablo 3 for example. A quick google search shows that multiple games are well off and have infinite stat gains.

There is no permadeath PvP in diablo 3. Your examples are not convincing.

[MooCow]

The math behind the current mechanics makes it impossible for a returning character to reach (or even outperform) a character that kept playing - certainly under the constraint that both have the same knowledge about the game, same amount of time they can sink into it while being active and access to the same resources (in terms of access to localized resources, mob spawn points, ...).

This isn't true, the math allows people to catch up.

Everyone keeps saying that people quit because they fall behind, or die. I like to explore old dead bases, and loot them for goodies. Less than 10% look like they were raided. Almost every single one looks like people just got bored and left. I don't specifically oppose a stat cap, I am just here to point out that it isn't going to make the game less boring. Removing death probably would though.

[Granger]

This isn't true, the math allows people to catch up.

As you seem to think x*y < x*(y-z) can be true for positive integers: you suck at math.