Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

[Austinh15]

It doesn't mean it won't equalize at some point, and trade and hugs/good vibes won't start going around. Rather it just takes time from early world to mid world for people to get comfortable/stop shitting on one another.

I almost feel like this might be a bit reactionary to the early game bloodbath. Have the wails of the innocents been loud the past week Jorb?

Disagree. Compare the number of threads in Apples for Oranges during the older worlds to most recent (take a look in both The Archive and The Hearth Vault) and then please explain how trade is going to "equalize" at some point.

I said that wrong. I don't know why trade is ingrained in my brain to mean civil/not stabbing one another.
I just mean that people chill out for a bit. You and I know there are outliers in this. But it's not like EVERYONE is a murder hobo.

But crime is needed early world to make sure others know who controls territory etc etc. It's the most pivotal time to determine who is living where.
No one should be protected from being properly informed to go away. I can't tell you how many times I've been burned by letting someone stay near me, only for them to be the most greedy, useless hermit trash I've ever seen in my life.

I know it doesn't address the current topic, but I think violence is getting a bad rep given how well it solves problems if you're competent/have good friends.

This is nothing new guys. Bigger groups with more game knowledge will always prevail and balancing your game to circumvent that doesn't sound like good design.

[vatas]

Wasn't PvP in Salem more or less ruined by the ability to put people in Stocks (mush weaker version of what Jorb is suggesting in OP.)

Even after the most blatant way to screw people trapped in stocks were removed by the recent fresh server (place ticks, inject drugs, simply cough on them with a diseased alt) that were almost certain death sentences, it was still way too strong (based on what I heard on Discord.) PvP devolved into "try to force the other side to scent themselves, then place them on the stocks" (Haven had similar meta when Nidbanes were strong.)

[Luno]

or the challenged character dies of shame and cringe.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Lmao
Nice one, jorb. Surely you didn't consider this seriously tho, right?

EDIT:
Maybe consider that con/str/weapon/armor equalization you guys were trying with again? That shit looked good, maybe it would help equalize stuff.

[maze]

I don't think this is the way; to easily abused.

if someone comes by with 50 alts (lower their HHP a few time by fighting a boar, throw a tick on to get them to 1HPP) and stacks them in front of someone's door you wish to kill.
That player will end up murdering one likely just by pushing it out of the way.

Now you're fk'ed as this alt summons you and it was part of a major factions; they camp the sign. The alt takes all the health problems, while the other players guard the post for free.
So you're only choose for knocking out a alt is to go get knocked out and die, or die.

it's a no win

[The_Lich_King]

I don't think this is the way; to easily abused.

if someone comes by with 50 alts (lower their HHP a few time by fighting a boar, throw a tick on to get them to 1HPP) and stacks them in front of someone's door you wish to kill.
That player will end up murdering one likely just by pushing it out of the way.

Now you're fk'ed as this alt summons you and it was part of a major factions; they camp the sign. The alt takes all the health problems, while the other players guard the post for free.
So you're only choose for knocking out a alt is to go get knocked out and die, or die.

it's a no win

This is a very valid statement... What i think would be a better change is make it so nidbanes are alot cheaper so low tier newbs have a much easier time accessing them. It won't screw over new players since Nidbanes scale based on your stats.

Likewise make it so Nidbanes scale alot harder the higher stats you have to make them much more punishing to high tier players.

[Kaios]

I said that wrong. I don't know why trade is ingrained in my brain to mean civil/not stabbing one another.
I just mean that people chill out for a bit. You and I know there are outliers in this. But it's not like EVERYONE is a murder hobo.

Oh okay my bad, I don't think that's an incorrect perspective though to also take trade into consideration. Players used to take a more active role in creating large markets and there were also many smaller markets and in general a greater interest in trade but over the course of the several worlds trade activity has dwindled to a point where it's basically non-existent.

I'm sure there is more than one reason for that, but I do recall many scenarios in which a player or group attempted to create a market only to have it sieged and/or griefed on a regular basis (or in some cases bug raided) and typically most players haven't been able to do much about it. During the times when rangers were more prevalent, there were some dependable people you could call upon during such circumstances but that too isn't really something that happens as often any more.

[Apocoreo]

I'm skipping the thread because I'm smartr than everyone else. Here's some random thoughts:

- I would get my friends to charge the thing with nakeds and try to bash, at least on the first one

- you could set up a claim in that time nearby, build a shitload of wilderness beacon to facilitate this

- the challenge window should shift for people in different timezones

- What if you left a bunch of scents? should be 1 per character

- This seems very adjustable, like time-wise and what is considered a grievous crime

- this is somewhat complicated and therefore is going to be used by bigger groups, generally

[Apocoreo]

Also I recently made a similar suggest about how siege should work, it involved both characters "bidding" on a time for the confrontation, favouring the defender in a siege. Both side pick a time and based on that the options shrink for a second bidding round etc. The point was to force a confrontation, as you shouldn't be sieging stronger enemies, but give the defenders a chance to gather allies for a big cooooooooooooool battle. I don't think the concept of forcing a confrontation works as well here, but I like some of the ideas. More big factions duels, but you'd also see way more crime alts depending on what counts as grievous.

[sakiji]

Problem: Since W3 and the removal of brick bashers there hasn't been real consequences to crime. Criminals roam free. You hate to see it.

Solution: Holmgang

Core Pitch:
...

Alternative idea, to avoid gank fests and cheese trays.
As the current system with summoning Nidbanes seems to be more punishing to initiate and set up for the affected party, as opposed to the perpetrator;
What if - when having commited a serious crime within the last fortnight (1 moon cycle), an experience becomes available at random while doing any activity:
"Ran out of Luck" -- "This vile hearthling does have nothing but darkness in its heart, as such it is claimed by its likeness."
> The perpetrator will be teleported into a (level adjusted) instanced realm arena, where the player will have to 1v1 battle an agent of death, like a dungeon boss room, with a straightforward manly fight, meat on meat.
Even if succeeding the challenge there's a chance to take various wounds back home as souvenir.
Like "Touched by Hel" - "You have seen it all... you feel muddled and exhausted by your ordeal but also enlightened by the otherworldly experience."

• -50 INT
• -25% LP Gain
• +25 PSY

Something along that line, wounds that may heal very slowly, or have annoying to get medicine, to fuck with the players.

Caveat, as summoning can happen at random - someone with prexisting wounds from fighting might get sounded his death knell, so people engaging in equal PvP/Faction warfare might be negatively affected, whereas the toxic gank squad that attack weaker players, would likely be unhurt and at full health at most times.

One remedy might be to add a new type of crime/scent, "Opressive Murder" -- The strong bullying the weak" that focuses more on stat difference (CON or STR maybe or Total LP | Weaker party < 1/4th of Opressive party), like with studying skulls, with a base threshold for a player to be eligible, so as people mentioned baiting others into murdering isn't as easy, at least not directly with fresh spawns.
The threshold and stat ratio would probably have to be rebalanced based on the age of the world, maybe by taking into account the median player progression (of actively playing heartlings) each week-ish.
Instead of cluttering with more scents it could also be a wound/debuff:
"Hardened Nether Growth" -- "You have a digusting permanently hardened growth down at your nethers, it suddenly appeared after you exercised your massive power upon an helpless hearthling. It is quite noticable"

• -15 Stealth
• -5 Dex

The idea likely has a whole lotta issues I didn't think of too though.

[banok]

I like where your head is at with this, but The Usual Suspects are generally correct in that

#1) Griefing poopsockers will just alt around this to no consequence
#2) This just makes committing any crime at all a death sentence for anyone who's not in a PVP faction, more or less

This I like the idea but dont think it will pan out as intended alot like nidbanes.

I think a system where commiting crimes based on severity gives "bad guy points" alignment, these are permanent. And punishing enough to deter people from unwarranted acts of violence. Punishing effects could be perminant stat debuffs (like wounds), increasing amount of items lootable on KO whereas crimeless characters should only have a couple items lootable on KO to again discourage unwarranted violence. Also innocent chars could take less HHP damage, similiar but replacing "murdererous rage" so bad guys are more likely to die.

People will obviously make crime/combat alts, they already do. but the idea is that even if they are just going around killing sprucecaps and never in any danger, they will should suffer enough penalties to be forced to make new characters too achieve this, slowing them down and making them question if it was worth it. encouraging them to use said crime/combat alts only on juicy targets.