P2P plan

[ThisIsLandon]

Jorb, Loftar, it's really quite obvious that people would prefer a one time payment to buy the game. You would still have resources to develop, and as you develop more people would come to pay for it. Even if you changed the subscription to be $5 per month people would be much happier. No one wants to fork out the massive amount of cash for a one year subscription to have your "$6" per month. A flat 5$ per month or a BUY to play model would be much better for you players and yourselves. I for one love the game and have been playing since the start of W7, but I won't be paying $15 a month for an alpha game where everything is a timewaste and therefor a moneywaste.

[Serinitus]

I agree with alot of the points made in this thread, but since talking amongst ourselves likely wont change things and jorbtar need to survive somehow.

1.)Now Haven 1.0 survived serverwise for the last half decade or more, this is due to JL's work income supporting their 'baby' which is completely understandable; as is the need for monetary compensation.
2.) I don't mind the way the sub model is set up in the slightest, I don't like the oldschool haven being stuck behind a paywall... but I can understand it at the same time.
3.) while i don't mind how the model is, i think the price is a bit much. 5-10 bucks is the pricerange for a game of this and I'd more than be willing to pay.
4.) There is a flaw in the model tho, it encourages alt creation for free users. when one account goes down; use the next one! it just limits the character progression

Note: every issue I've pointed out could cease to be an issue depending on JL's action towards hafen support-wise and such starting with lag and server stability, there are still alot of weird quirks about the game that need adjustment (i dont think dreams need to take HOURS to spawn, or the butchering a rabbit 4 times, quirky things like that) show me that and i'll friggin buy the gold subscription for a year! I do enjoy hafen as a game at the moment, and i think 12/24 hours a month is probably a fine amoumt, maybe make verified 40 hours or something (im assuming the hour thing is to prevent botting)

[Landon]

3.) while i don't mind how the model is, i think the price is a bit much. 5-10 bucks is the pricerange for a game of this and I'd more than be willing to pay.

This 100%

[Trick2G]

Can we just used a cosmetics system?

Pay and you get more characters and skins etc?

[Fobia]

This isn't about not getting it for free. It's about your archaic monthly fee crap.

I don't want to argue with you, but....

The reason why you don't like subscriptions is that you feel they force you to pay, no?

You'd rather see more of a free-to-play model, right?

Thus you are upset about not getting the game for free?

What do you perceive the alternative to be? How are we supposed to monetize recurring gameplay through other means? What would be an alternative, other than more of a direct item shop? Would you really prefer that?

I do want to argue with you, after all I am your "spoiled, entitlement mentality, child of the welfare state friend" but I will try to keep it civil and avoid telling you and your bro to get fucked.

Here is the problem as far as it concerns me: you do not care about what people think, and we do not care about what you need the money for, or if you need it, at all. We like the game, and we tolerate you because you make the game. You tolerate us because be it directly or indirectly we are the ones that provide you with some bucks to live. So once that is out of the way, lets get to the real issues aside from the obvious things.

Why do you need "free to play" players? Because those are the ones that are going to generate most of the content for your sandbox. You want a sandbox? You need some sand. A lot in fact. So much that everyone has enough of it. I know I said we were done with the obvious shit but since it isn't too obvious given your previous posts here it is.

How do we suggest you monetize a game recurrently without subscription fees? Well if you couldn't come with a nice system to do so because you do not plan ahead of a single day you could have hired someone to do so, after all, you need the money so this moves from the hobbie spot to the work spot. Isn't that your argument? Do the same for handling the community while you are at it.

So here is the actual suggestion: take a look at successful games in the last few years, they are free. Why wouldn't you make a proper skin system to monetize through it? I am sure people would spend a kidney to make sure their titan looked like a huge e-dick and that skin is going to get destroyed when they lose that titan, and they are going to rebuy it. I am sure factions would buy a nice huge as fuck palace skin to show their e-dick. Is it more of a risk than a subscription model, maybe, but there is always time to let people play free and then switch to a payment system than the other way around at least in my book.

Having said that I really hope the numbers sink after the free 48 hours (or whatever the exact number is) you felt that was enough for a month.


Baylife and brolove, except for you and your bro.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

So I've been seeing a lot of threads about this being sent str8 to hell, but I actually want to have a proper discussion about how this is so retarded that it must be a joke. Also I tried to make my English as gud as possible for this but sorry for any messed up word choices you find.

So without further adoo, let's get to how this decision is bad from almost every perspective.

Let's think about how many people, at maximum, play Haven. The most I've seen online is about 1600 at launch, and almost everyone in their mother was online as soon as it went live. So, let's say to be nice Haven has around 2000 actual active players, who play every week or so. This is a very small number of players, even to be online at one time. An MMO game with that many players online at one time would be considered a dead or failing game, not to mention that Haven has about 700 people playing as I type this. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, as Haven is different than most MMOs, and runs on one big server. So, from this, it's obvious that Haven has a small, fragile and dedicated cult following who love this game with all their heart, and trust the devs to take care of it well.

From a business perspective, making the game P2P is fucking dumb, because these are the only players you have, and once they're gone it will take a long time to replace them. In addition to this, even Haven while it was F2P was barely accessible to new players, and most new players where shown Haven's existence by the existing community. Making the game P2P deters new players to try out this already hard to get into game because they are intimidated by the fact that they will have to pay, and less will be brought to the game in the first place due to the driving away of the existing community by the P2P decision.

Now to the way you announced it, that being not announcing it at all and censoring the shitstorm afterwards. Let's look at a game with a similar free attitude, cult following and niche audience as Haven: Dwarf Fortress. The devs of Dwarf Fort have never hinted at it costing any money. Now imagine right as they came out with a new, huge update, Toady made DF have a subscription system without telling anybody at all. I hope seeing it from an outside perspective from this example can show you how fucking enraging what you've done is, and why everyone is so pissed off about it in the first place.

Let's fast forward a few weeks, to when peoples' free time has run out, and the playerbase has dwindled to only those who are willing to pay. I predict this number is around 200, with >100 people in game at any one time and gradually falling as the small trickle of new players cannot counterbalance people quitting. So, assuming everyone has a bronze subscription, you're making 2000$ a month, let's bump it to 4000$ if people have different subscriptions. Congratulations, you're now making more money than you ever did from donations! But was that ever really the point of Haven?

Now from a personal perspective. So, you're making more money, but you've killed your game; stabbed it in the heart and left it in the street to slowly bleed out until it's an empty carcass being eaten by a few dogs. Was it really worth it? Wasn't the whole point of HnH existing to be a social experiment? To see how some people become diplomatic powers, some economic powers, PvP gods? To give some insight into human nature by letting people do whatever they want in a map and seeing what happens? To see how the community develops around the actions in game? Well congratulations, you've just scared away all those likely powerhouses, and you've decimated the community meant to develop around them. The point of this game was the human aspect, and without people the game will lose players at an exponential rate.

Now, the reason this must be a joke is because it's so fucking dumb that I don't believe that Jorbtar could make such a lapse in judgement. I don't know them well enough personally to say they're smart people, but from what I've seen and heard of them, I find it hard to believe they would make such a profoundly stupid idea and confess they're completely serious. It doesn't add up at all to me. If you really wanted money that bad, a 20$ single purchase would have been a flat better choice.

I sincerely hope this is a joke and that I'm not witnessing the last days of one of the most unique games I've ever had the pleasure of playing o7

[Brickington]

No

Your probably banned for being a douche bag, and now that you've ban evaded? Why would anyone unban you?

HI Painhertz, I haven't seen any comments from you about this whole shitstorm yet.

The only shitstorm is the self-entitled children who thinks the Jorbtor owe them anything. i'd rather keep playing the game, which kicks ass.

Conversely, Jorb and Loftar are the entitled fucks for thinking they can charge loads of money without telling anyone. They don't deserve money, and all I've seen is them saying "Don't like it, don't play". That seems way more entitled than people wondering what the fuck happened here.

[FatFruit]

listen to nandez he knows best again



edit:ty jorbtar for ruining my life (cant play old haven) )=

[Denkar]

get a job

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

get a job

I have a job, which why I value the money I fucking worked hard for.
And this isn't even about not wanting to pay, it's about the future of the game.