P2P plan

[cicero76]

I think the problem with this model is that you just can't own the game. Even if you have verified account, you can't be sure. If the servers go down, your game goes down. If the play hours are over, the game is over. If you pay for a subscription, it still will end. You can't own the game, you can rent it for an enormous price for 80% of server uptimes, and of that 80%, 60% non waiting situations, and on that 60%, Even more little percenteages. You can't find your friends because people like to cheat. You can't play forever because people like to get money. You can't simply buy the game because... Sweden. I have no idea why they chose a disturbed, complicated, menacing and just plain intimidating subscription-based time-wasting p2p model. It's not pay 2 play anymore. It's just weird

[alioli]

Because... Sweden?
Now you lost me xD

[kris_hole]

I think the problem with this model is that you just can't own the game. Even if you have verified account, you can't be sure. If the servers go down, your game goes down. If the play hours are over, the game is over. If you pay for a subscription, it still will end. You can't own the game, you can rent it for an enormous price for 80% of server uptimes, and of that 80%, 60% non waiting situations, and on that 60%, Even more little percenteages. You can't find your friends because people like to cheat. You can't play forever because people like to get money. You can't simply buy the game because... Sweden. I have no idea why they chose a disturbed, complicated, menacing and just plain intimidating subscription-based time-wasting p2p model. It's not pay 2 play anymore. It's just weird

The game has literally just been put online, you honeslty expected a 100% uptime during the alpha testing of a new release? Are you fucking retarded? "we can't own it" do you own any other online game when the servers are offline like? idiot.

As for everyone bitching about this, i work part-time minimum wage and i can afford this. I pay rent, tax, the full works, and i can afford this. So all of you fucking raging lunatics complaining that a game which has been free to play for 7 years, meaning the devs have spent 7 years of their life developing/working/maintaining, to bitch because they are asking for some money so they can pay their shit, you can all just go fuck yourselves. Seriously though, do you even have the slightest clue of what it takes to develop something like this? to do that in your spare time when you've been at work, whatever other shit is in their lives that they have to get done. But they should just give that out for free? mate fuck you.

To those arguing the price etc, each to their own, its what you consider the game to be worth. I have no issue with it as it is, $10/month if you go in 30-day packages. Nothing to complain about.

[kris_hole]

lets say they chose to sell the game at $10 a piece.

So, 900 people buy the game, that's $9,000. that's about the total of the haven fan base that would buy it without the game being on steam/any other distribution platform.

How the fuck is $9,000 enough to give 2 people a living pay and pay for the server hosting while still having the time to not have to work full-time so that they can actually work on this game?

$2,000 pr month if 200 people were subbed is a lot more worth their while in the long run and for the foreseeable future of this game than a one off lump at launch.

[alioli]

I think the problem with this model is that you just can't own the game. Even if you have verified account, you can't be sure. If the servers go down, your game goes down. If the play hours are over, the game is over. If you pay for a subscription, it still will end. You can't own the game, you can rent it for an enormous price for 80% of server uptimes, and of that 80%, 60% non waiting situations, and on that 60%, Even more little percenteages. You can't find your friends because people like to cheat. You can't play forever because people like to get money. You can't simply buy the game because... Sweden. I have no idea why they chose a disturbed, complicated, menacing and just plain intimidating subscription-based time-wasting p2p model. It's not pay 2 play anymore. It's just weird

The game has literally just been put online, you honeslty expected a 100% uptime during the alpha testing of a new release? Are you fucking retarded? "we can't own it" do you own any other online game when the servers are offline like? idiot.

As for everyone bitching about this, i work part-time minimum wage and i can afford this. I pay rent, tax, the full works, and i can afford this. So all of you fucking raging lunatics complaining that a game which has been free to play for 7 years, meaning the devs have spent 7 years of their life developing/working/maintaining, to bitch because they are asking for some money so they can pay their shit, you can all just go fuck yourselves. Seriously though, do you even have the slightest clue of what it takes to develop something like this? to do that in your spare time when you've been at work, whatever other shit is in their lives that they have to get done. But they should just give that out for free? mate fuck you.

To those arguing the price etc, each to their own, its what you consider the game to be worth. I have no issue with it as it is, $10/month if you go in 30-day packages. Nothing to complain about.

Oh I can AFFORD it and im unemployed. I just don't deem a game still considered to be alpha, with still quite bad servers (still getting that god damn every 2 min lag @ 900peeps online) that I spend most of the time watching my player chop wood to be worth 15$ a MONTH.
I'd consider maybe 2-4 to be realistic. Especially since it WAS free. Going from F2P to P2P and expecting people to stfu about it is frankly unrealistic.

[Redempter]

This isn't about not getting it for free. It's about your archaic monthly fee crap.

I don't want to argue with you, but....

The reason why you don't like subscriptions is that you feel they force you to pay, no?

You'd rather see more of a free-to-play model, right?

Thus you are upset about not getting the game for free?

What do you perceive the alternative to be? How are we supposed to monetize recurring gameplay through other means? What would be an alternative, other than more of a direct item shop? Would you really prefer that?

Many of us are asking for a one time lump fee for permanent play like every other crafting game out there.

What you seem to not understand is that this is an online game and that contrary to game like Minecraft, you can't host the game on your computer and play with your 2 friends. The game need to be hosted in a centralised server which handle the hundreds (thoudands?) of players all connecting to it, this server cost money, monthly.

Are you starting to understand why a one time fee can't cut it?

[Redempter]

I think the problem with this model is that you just can't own the game. Even if you have verified account, you can't be sure. If the servers go down, your game goes down. If the play hours are over, the game is over. If you pay for a subscription, it still will end. You can't own the game, you can rent it for an enormous price for 80% of server uptimes, and of that 80%, 60% non waiting situations, and on that 60%, Even more little percenteages. You can't find your friends because people like to cheat. You can't play forever because people like to get money. You can't simply buy the game because... Sweden. I have no idea why they chose a disturbed, complicated, menacing and just plain intimidating subscription-based time-wasting p2p model. It's not pay 2 play anymore. It's just weird

The game has literally just been put online, you honeslty expected a 100% uptime during the alpha testing of a new release? Are you fucking retarded? "we can't own it" do you own any other online game when the servers are offline like? idiot.

As for everyone bitching about this, i work part-time minimum wage and i can afford this. I pay rent, tax, the full works, and i can afford this. So all of you fucking raging lunatics complaining that a game which has been free to play for 7 years, meaning the devs have spent 7 years of their life developing/working/maintaining, to bitch because they are asking for some money so they can pay their shit, you can all just go fuck yourselves. Seriously though, do you even have the slightest clue of what it takes to develop something like this? to do that in your spare time when you've been at work, whatever other shit is in their lives that they have to get done. But they should just give that out for free? mate fuck you.

To those arguing the price etc, each to their own, its what you consider the game to be worth. I have no issue with it as it is, $10/month if you go in 30-day packages. Nothing to complain about.

Oh I can AFFORD it and im unemployed. I just don't deem a game still considered to be alpha, with still quite bad servers (still getting that god damn every 2 min lag @ 900peeps online) that I spend most of the time watching my player chop wood to be worth 15$ a MONTH.
I'd consider maybe 2-4 to be realistic. Especially since it WAS free. Going from F2P to P2P and expecting people to stfu about it is frankly unrealistic.

read kris_hole post about how the game has just been put online.

And for your last part, you're right because people are greedy little crybaby and think the world should be theirs.

[alioli]

Just been online or not, it's exactly as unstable as it's always been. Might get better in time, since i suppose someone's throwing money at them - and hopefully they spend those moneys making the servers work like servers should.
But I have no hopes for that.
Lol yeah crybabys - I was hyped 2 months for this. Like really hyped as I finally saw my chance to get back into H&H - was greeted with a paywall. That's like running towards candy just to be slammed in the head with a crowbar.
bad analogy but you get the point. I'm pissed - because I'm majorly disappointed. I WANT to give them money - but I won't pay them per month. I just won't.
Salem - for example, had a decent although slightly too "P2W"y system (as some items couldnt be gained in game) But atleast I payed for the starter pack, twice. Would pay more had I not dropped that game for this piece of shit.

[jrocksmooth]

I'd like to see their rationale for their pricing scheme.

How many $10 subs do they expect to acquire?

How many of each donation system are they counting on?

Because they seem too smart to have come up with these dollar amounts out of thin air.

I would wager that at $5 a month, they would make more money than at $10, as they would have over double the paid players at the lower funding amount. Why do I think this way? First, it's a self-declared Alpha state, as stated on their About page:

"Haven and Hearth is currently in what we consider alpha status. In practice, this means that we have most of the core functionalities in place, those crucial gimmicks and widgets that allow the game to run and people to connect and play. However, much of the higher-level functionality is either missing or only partially implemented. Also, because some functionality is partially implemented, the persistent data in the game can be rather unstable. For example, we might have to remove the maps from time to time when we implement a new map generator."

Second, it's a browser game. It's not a AAA title, nor even a A title. $15 for WoW, f2p for EQ2, f2p for Planetside 2, p2w for damn near all the asian MMO's, etc. No other MMO I know limits actual playtime like this, but I mostly know only the majors.

Arguments listed: If you can afford a PC, you can afford to play this game, cheapass!!! Well, it's not about what I CAN afford, it's what I feel my money is worth. A $10 crashing, buggy alpha browser game? I'm not there yet.

Plus, going from f2p to a solid fee as if this was a MMORPG (yes, I'm saying this is NOT a Massive MMO), is a bit of a steep hill for a lot of players to climb.

Only time will tell of they can maintain a good base of subs at the $10 price, or a good clip of donations.

My first impressions are that they'd be better served with quantity vs quality tho.

Now to figure out why the hell I made a stone axe that can't do a damn thing...

[cicero76]

The game has literally just been put online, you honeslty expected a 100% uptime during the alpha testing of a new release? Are you fucking retarded? "we can't own it" do you own any other online game when the servers are offline like? idiot.

As for everyone bitching about this, i work part-time minimum wage and i can afford this. I pay rent, tax, the full works, and i can afford this. So all of you fucking raging lunatics complaining that a game which has been free to play for 7 years, meaning the devs have spent 7 years of their life developing/working/maintaining, to bitch because they are asking for some money so they can pay their shit, you can all just go fuck yourselves. Seriously though, do you even have the slightest clue of what it takes to develop something like this? to do that in your spare time when you've been at work, whatever other shit is in their lives that they have to get done. But they should just give that out for free? mate fuck you.

To those arguing the price etc, each to their own, its what you consider the game to be worth. I have no issue with it as it is, $10/month if you go in 30-day packages. Nothing to complain about.[/quote]
Oh I can AFFORD it and im unemployed. I just don't deem a game still considered to be alpha, with still quite bad servers (still getting that god damn every 2 min lag @ 900peeps online) that I spend most of the time watching my player chop wood to be worth 15$ a MONTH.
I'd consider maybe 2-4 to be realistic. Especially since it WAS free. Going from F2P to P2P and expecting people to stfu about it is frankly unrealistic.[/quote]

read kris_hole post about how the game has just been put online.

And for your last part, you're right because people are greedy little crybaby and think the world should be theirs.[/quote]
I certainly owned the other version of haven. I didn't need to pay for little subscriptions so i can play the thing i have. I didn't need to worry about playtime. I didn't need to set up a clock for 15 minutes every day so i can spend my "playtime" accordingly. By owning a game, i mean i can just execute it and play it. When the server's off, the server's off, the thing's still yours. But when the devs cut you out of the game for your wallet, then i don't own the game. I rent the game. I wouldn't rent a car that's full of bugs, issues and is very crashable. And i certainly wouldn't rent it for the pricing it is on the store, it's just not fit to a game that is
1. java based
2. server issues
3. was free for YEARS withough issue for money (and yet now they need it for some reason)
4. not even finished

So, think before you buy. The game's not free. The game's as costly as World of Warcraft. The game's unfinished, and some random swedes are asking for a hundred a year for me to fork over (350-ish in brasil, i could buy a console in 3 years or play unfinished hafen)