W9 Siege System

[vatas]

time to altvault literally everything.

hello? just make that you cannot log out characters without hearth fires completely and that you can loot the inventory/equip from hearthfires that the particular character has

Hello to you as well, we can hear you clearly. This can be a fix, yes. Really it is not sense making to be able to having immortal items putted on offline character. I think it still leaves an issues of moving item to a secondary claim location.

My attitude to being able to loot Hearthfires is generally positive. Salem has that but there is major-ish exploit that would be enabled in Haven due to difference in fast travel mechanics.

Make alts A and B. They need theft or you need other chars to do that.
Place alt A next to alt B's Hearthfire and vice versa.
For example, give item to alt A. Log out if necessary, then steal it from his Hearthfire.

Point is you could, at cost of spamming Thefts scents, move stuff between two places, making the "raid targets can just evacuate" -issue really bad.

One solution could be that stealing from Hearthfire forces logged out character to start at his/her Hearthfire.

You can steal from Leantos (Hearthfire equivalent) in Salem. Exploit is moot because of how NPC town Providence works. (Alts A and B can just fast Travel to Providence from their Leantos.)

[Granger]

Problem with enabling stealing from hearth fires is that newbies will be shafted so deep that their head falls off.
I for one dosn't want to see an endless flood of 'I logged in and was naked again' posts on the forum...

[nytro]

I recently had an idea about the whole "loot vanishes when raid starts" thing a little while back, and was reminded of it after reading the hearthfire comments.

So the well-known issue is that when people raid, they want and expect loot for the most part, but one of the current problems is that there are multiple ways to "hide" all the good loot before anyone gets to it.
So why not create a situation in which items of value will be guaranteed to the raiders that manage to break through, items that can't be alt vaulted or destroyed out of spite before anyone gets to them.

We currently have a system going on with Village Idols accumulating authority indirectly through villagers gaining LP, which basically requires no work. Why not slightly change this system so that the idol requires to be fed a small amount of resources each day, not enough to require extra work, but just something that you can quickly do for simple authority upkeep. I guess you could call this "Pledging Your Loyalty" to the village by "Offering" the idol something of value. It would be fairly easy to determine what items are considered valuable and what are not, just by looking at any trading thread from this world or any previous world. There's consistency throughout each world with many items.

Anyhow, like I said earlier, the daily upkeep would require minimal effort, but the point is, these items that are offered are kept "inside" the idol, unobtainable by any means other than through raiding (which can be determined at some other time, but I guess currently by breaking the village shield or something, making the idol vulnerable to be looted by the players who participated in breaking the shield).

The point is, with this accumulation of resources in mind happening with the idol, newbie villages / start-of-the-world villages will not have much loot early on, so there will not be any extra incentive to go after them. Well-developed villages on the other hand will have accumulated a great amount of loot and I'm sure anyone still reading at this point understands that the raiders will have a clear goal in mind after breaking into the village.


Well, there's my two cents, go and pick it apart, help out and try and find some flaw that can't be easily fixed. If you do happen to find some issue with this, try and suggest a possible fix to it at the same time.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Ysh]

I recently had an idea about the whole "loot vanishes when raid starts" thing a little while back, and was reminded of it after reading the hearthfire comments.

So the well-known issue is that when people raid, they want and expect loot for the most part, but one of the current problems is that there are multiple ways to "hide" all the good loot before anyone gets to it.
So why not create a situation in which items of value will be guaranteed to the raiders that manage to break through, items that can't be alt vaulted or destroyed out of spite before anyone gets to them.

We currently have a system going on with Village Idols accumulating authority indirectly through villagers gaining LP, which basically requires no work. Why not slightly change this system so that the idol requires to be fed a small amount of resources each day, not enough to require extra work, but just something that you can quickly do for simple authority upkeep. I guess you could call this "Pledging Your Loyalty" to the village by "Offering" the idol something of value. It would be fairly easy to determine what items are considered valuable and what are not, just by looking at any trading thread from this world or any previous world. There's consistency throughout each world with many items.

Anyhow, like I said earlier, the daily upkeep would require minimal effort, but the point is, these items that are offered are kept "inside" the idol, unobtainable by any means other than through raiding (which can be determined at some other time, but I guess currently by breaking the village shield or something, making the idol vulnerable to be looted by the players who participated in breaking the shield).

The point is, with this accumulation of resources in mind happening with the idol, newbie villages / start-of-the-world villages will not have much loot early on, so there will not be any extra incentive to go after them. Well-developed villages on the other hand will have accumulated a great amount of loot and I'm sure anyone still reading at this point understands that the raiders will have a clear goal in mind after breaking into the village.


Well, there's my two cents, go and pick it apart, help out and try and find some flaw that can't be easily fixed.
Thoughts? Suggestions?

First thing coming to mind is the village raiding itself every X days, to get the refund of items and making themselves a less juicy target. They can use alts for this purpose if needing.

[nytro]

First thing coming to mind is the village raiding itself every X days, to get the refund of items and making themselves a less juicy target. They can use alts for this purpose if needing.

I see where you're coming from. I can see a fix for that by making the consequence for doing that worse than the reward. Currently, the village would have to siege itself for quite some time, and raiding and breaking down the shield would mean leaving the entire village open to anyone to get into. I don't think the idol can be thought of as a place to "store" items to later get them back one day because alts are a much easier way to go about it if you want to keep something safe. Also, if anyone can think of more flaws, try and throw in a possible suggestion to that issue.

[LadyGoo]

Sounds interesting, however, how would the server determine the offerings and the level of the villages?
A village authority/territory size is not a proper measure.

[nytro]

Sounds interesting, however, how would the server determine the offerings and the level of the villages?
A village authority/territory size is not a proper measure.

The age of the village from the point of its founding would determine offering / authority upkeep. I'm sure there could be better ways but that would just be a simplified version.

[Ysh]

Sounds interesting, however, how would the server determine the offerings and the level of the villages?
A village authority/territory size is not a proper measure.

The age of the village from the point of its founding would determine offering / authority upkeep. I'm sure there could be better ways but that would just be a simplified version.

I think at some point, it will be cheaper to do moving to another village and raiding the old village for loots. If villages have increasing cost over time, they can be treated as temporary things. Similarly, maybe some multiple claim owning large village can just play out of one claim while raiding the other, then doing the swapping, rebuilding, and repeating. I think if raiding will give the raiders some access to resource that even the village cannot access, villages will be raiding themselves.

The basic idea is maybe a good one though. Right now the cost of getting raided is everything. People will do anything to stop from losing everything. This is why raiders must take much time and the raided will evacuate the loots. The mechanics must make it better to sacrifice some percentage of loot to the raiders than to be with the situation of all or nothing.

[nytro]

I think at some point, it will be cheaper to do moving to another village and raiding the old village for loots. If villages have increasing cost over time, they can be treated as temporary things. Similarly, maybe some multiple claim owning large village can just play out of one claim while raiding the other, then doing the swapping, rebuilding, and repeating. I think if raiding will give the raiders some access to resource that even the village cannot access, villages will be raiding themselves.

The basic idea is maybe a good one though. Right now the cost of getting raided is everything. People will do anything to stop from losing everything. This is why raiders must take much time and the raided will evacuate the loots. The mechanics must make it better to sacrifice some percentage of loot to the raiders than to be with the situation of all or nothing.

I don't know why you're making the assumption that the cost to maintain the village would be so great it would better to create a new one, when all of this is literally only an idea. The original point I was making was that the upkeep would require a minimal amount of work, close to what happens know when maintaining village authority. So if people would be willing to spend constant hours breaking into their own village, creating a new one and waiting yet another 24 hours to reset, just to avoid dumping some items into the idol, then that's on them.

Back to the whole raiding yourselves thing, which seems to keep popping up, there's quite a few ways to go about that. One would be what I was talking about earlier, having a worse consequence of raiding your own village than the benefit you would gain from the loot (which was your own in the first place, so it's not as if you're getting anything new out of it anyways).

Another idea would be to provide some kind of incentive towards maintaining the village, and as the age of the village increases, some kind of bonuses could go along with it, perhaps at the late / latest stage of the village providing some sort of interesting bonus (small LP% bonus, or maybe some of the bonuses we had back in haven with the sliders), either way, some kind of an incentive.

[sabinati]

A village authority/territory size is not a proper measure.

why not?