A frank discussion on pvp

[overtyped]

That's not so cut and dry. What do we do with people who don't want to use discord voice, or can't speak english very well, or don't have enough time to practice, or even want to practice a complicated group maneuverer that is meta for koing?

We have many casuals like that, who just want to login and play for a bit and chill without having to listen to, "GOGO, I GOT 4 IP , OPENING RED OPENING RED, I HIT HIM, QUICK, QUICK, OPP KNOCKS HIM, IM READY HERE FOR A CLEAVE."

Well, ignoring robben for a while, why do you think someone who doesn't coordinate and refuses to communicate deserves to compete with ppl who put in that effort? It's similar to arguing that people in let's say wow, doing lfr (as in random groups with 0 communication) should be able to compete with mythic raiders.
Players deserve a fair chance at avoiding conflict that i'll give you, there should be more tutorials and so on that explain to a player how to run away properly and how to defend themselves at a basic level. But players don't deserve a fair chance to win if they're not willing to put in the same effort as the others, that's just how ALL competitive games work. A novice in chess can't complain about there being too much tactics bcs he just wants to hop on and 1v1 a GM chill without learning thousands of hours of theory.

That wasn't exactly the way I was going, but fair enough.
Does a strong low skill method with little ko and miniscule killing power really not have it's place?. You did say it yourself, you care about ko's, and we don't, and we rarely if ever get any. We each prioritize different things.

Is it really so bad for a rabble of casual noobs who don't pose a danger of koing and killing, to have a good method of fighting that is easy to pick up, and doesn't need strong coordination?

[HasseKebab]

That wasn't exactly the way I was going, but fair enough.
Does a strong low skill method with little ko and miniscule killing power really not have it's place?. You did say it yourself, you care about ko's, and we don't, and we rarely if ever get any. We each prioritize different things.

Is it really so bad for a rabble of casual noobs who don't pose a danger of koing and killing, to have a good method of fighting that is easy to pick up, and doesn't need strong coordination?

attacking 2 colors(red and blue) with 2 moves, and having a finisher move isnt really complex or rocket science, your group is like on the cusp of just being a viable pvp group if you put any effort into actually trying to learn instead of just larping farmville and taking the easier path out(pressing 1 button). We all play the same game, we do our part why cant you just do your part instead of just crying about how you refuse to partake in game mechanics.

The problem you're experiencing is more on you, than the game being somewhat unfair to people who play casually. Its in the word itself 'casual'. A casual in anything will never be a viable competitor to anyone in any craft, skill or school who actually puts effort into it.

[Dawidio123]

That wasn't exactly the way I was going, but fair enough.
Does a strong low skill method with little ko and miniscule killing power really not have it's place?. You did say it yourself, you care about ko's, and we don't, and we rarely if ever get any. We each prioritize different things.
Is it really so bad for a rabble of casual noobs who don't pose a danger of koing and killing, to have a good method of fighting that is easy to pick up, and doesn't need strong coordination?

I think a group that puts more effort and has more skill should win by all means. That's my stance.
I do also think if a group such as yours, as in, composed of casuals that don't want to fight, angers so many factions they can't really find a defender shouldn't be able to win solely based on brainless strategy.

Did you consider the fact that if you didn't anger every single faction in the game you guys wouldn't have gotten into this situation? Usually when a siege happens there are many other factions willing to join and help just to get a fun fight. The fact is, you guys had to rely on orca being scared of getting sieged next and rosku being berth brother is mostly pure luck and "political reasons" as you have said yourself (and the fact we had a rat). If you guys didn't go out of your way to antagonize multiple factions you wouldn't have gotten sieged, and honestly at least from my perspective, nobody cared about the newbs in your village. I think WB is a great idea in principle, but you going out of your way (or well, some of your players, you know who and that includes robben) to piss off every single faction and then expecting the game balance to give you a fighting chance is not something that is in any way fair.

I'm pretty sure you could've repelled any single faction by yourselves even without SoS, given the defender's advantage.

[overtyped]

That wasn't exactly the way I was going, but fair enough.
Does a strong low skill method with little ko and miniscule killing power really not have it's place?. You did say it yourself, you care about ko's, and we don't, and we rarely if ever get any. We each prioritize different things.
Is it really so bad for a rabble of casual noobs who don't pose a danger of koing and killing, to have a good method of fighting that is easy to pick up, and doesn't need strong coordination?

I think a group that puts more effort and has more skill should win by all means. That's my stance.
I do also think if a group such as yours, as in, composed of casuals that don't want to fight, angers so many factions they can't really find a defender shouldn't be able to win solely based on brainless strategy.

Did you consider the fact that if you didn't anger every single faction in the game you guys wouldn't have gotten into this situation? Usually when a siege happens there are many other factions willing to join and help just to get a fun fight. The fact is, you guys had to rely on orca being scared of getting sieged next and rosku being berth brother is mostly pure luck and "political reasons" as you have said yourself (and the fact we had a rat). If you guys didn't go out of your way to antagonize multiple factions you wouldn't have gotten sieged, and honestly at least from my perspective, nobody cared about the newbs in your village. I think WB is a great idea in principle, but you going out of your way (or well, some of your players, you know who and that includes robben) to piss off every single faction and then expecting the game balance to give you a fighting chance is not something that is in any way fair.

I'm pretty sure you could've repelled any single faction by yourselves even without SoS, given the defender's advantage.

What do you mean by we won? You have said that you see the group that gets more ko's as being the winner.
I'm being tongue in cheeck, but I think we can at least agree on the fact that who is the winner and who is the loser is not so easy to define.

I know your stance, and for a faction pvp, it's understandable. On paper, the most skilled side should always win.
In your view, we have never won, but in our view, we have won by repelling.
So, now it comes down to who gets the cake, and who gets to eat it.

Causing huge wounds, sometimes killing, and getting loot is the cake
Winning the fight without getting any loot or ko's is eating the cake.

In your estimate, and Ignoring any combat meta's or moves, is getting both at once, or losing both at once, every single time, a healthy idea in principle for the average player?

[Dawidio123]

What do you mean by we won? You have said that you see the group that gets more ko's as being the winner.
I'm being tongue in cheeck, but I think we can at least agree on the fact that who is the winner and who is the loser is not so easy to define.

I know your stance, and for a faction pvp, it's understandable. On paper, the most skilled side should always win.
In your view, we have never won, but in our view, we have won by repelling.
So, now it comes down to who gets the cake, and who gets to eat it.

Causing huge wounds, sometimes killing, and getting loot is the cake
Winning the fight without getting any loot or ko's is eating the cake.

Ignoring any combat meta's or moves, is getting both at once every time a healthy idea in principle for the average player?

I feel like you ignored what i said, and it seems to be back to the usual discussion with you guys where you ignore whole arguments and repeat the same thing again. Idc who won. I do care who should be able to accomplish their objectives based on skill/effort.
Anyways, i think this discussion has come to its conclusion and i'm going to sleep, have a great night everyone, and i hope you enjoyed the debate. I also think you WB guys should think a bit less about the meta and a bit more about actually not making ppl your enemies so much that they're willing to siege you.

[TheServant]

attacking 2 colors(red and blue) with 2 moves, and having a finisher move isnt really complex or rocket science, your group is like on the cusp of just being a viable pvp group if you put any effort into actually trying to learn instead of just larping farmville and taking the easier path out(pressing 1 button). We all play the same game, we do our part why cant you just do your part instead of just crying about how you refuse to partake in game mechanics.

The problem you're experiencing is more on you, than the game being somewhat unfair to people who play casually. Its in the word itself 'casual'. A casual in anything will never be a viable competitor to anyone in any craft, skill or school who actually puts effort into it.

its very bad for "late game" pvp to have one strategy available, but i guess we will never have a solid metagame where you can choose options and diversify yourself. devs dont know how it works and its a very much needed aspect in this regard. Its not hard at all to learn pvp in hnh because of that aswell and cause valhalla. I was watching some pvp from world 11 and people were really bad compared to now, quite interesting thing to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_JfswBZLIA

[overtyped]

What do you mean by we won? You have said that you see the group that gets more ko's as being the winner.
I'm being tongue in cheeck, but I think we can at least agree on the fact that who is the winner and who is the loser is not so easy to define.

I know your stance, and for a faction pvp, it's understandable. On paper, the most skilled side should always win.
In your view, we have never won, but in our view, we have won by repelling.
So, now it comes down to who gets the cake, and who gets to eat it.

Causing huge wounds, sometimes killing, and getting loot is the cake
Winning the fight without getting any loot or ko's is eating the cake.

Ignoring any combat meta's or moves, is getting both at once every time a healthy idea in principle for the average player?

I feel like you ignored what i said, and it seems to be back to the usual discussion with you guys where you ignore whole arguments and repeat the same thing again. Idc who won. I do care who should be able to accomplish their objectives based on skill/effort.
Anyways, i think this discussion has come to its conclusion and i'm going to sleep, have a great night everyone, and i hope you enjoyed the debate. I also think you WB guys should think a bit less about the meta and a bit more about actually not making ppl your enemies so much that they're willing to siege you.

Hardly fair, I directly answered two of your points
You have said "I think a group that puts more effort and has more skill should win by all means. That's my stance." and addressed it.

You then said "I do also think if a group such as yours, as in, composed of casuals that don't want to fight, angers so many factions they can't really find a defender shouldn't be able to win solely based on brainless strategy."
And I acknowledged that you feel that way too.


I hope you can now answer the question I posed to you:

Causing huge wounds, sometimes killing, and getting loot is the cake
Winning the fight without getting any loot or ko's is eating the cake.
In your estimate, and Ignoring any combat meta's or moves, is getting both at once, or losing both at once, every single time, a healthy idea in principle for the average player?

[Ozzy123]

Bro says it was never about sos in the op then a few pages later admits that they wouldnt defend the siege without sos being op / eot

Why do people feel the need to talk about something that they have no idea about or just not enough knowledge about, I dont get it, yall spend most of your free time in this game and actively try to make it worse? Why? Just to win?

[overtyped]

Bro says it was never about sos in the op then a few pages later admits that they wouldnt defend the siege without sos being op / eot

Why do people feel the need to talk about something that they have no idea about or just not enough knowledge about, I dont get it, yall spend most of your free time in this game and actively try to make it worse? Why? Just to win?

Instead of playing the silly gotcha game again, as if anyone cares, how about answering some questions since you so keen and caught up with this thread.

Here's one you can answer for dawidio.

"Causing huge wounds, sometimes killing, and getting loot is the cake
Winning the fight without getting any loot or ko's is eating the cake.
In your estimate, and Ignoring any combat meta's or moves, is getting both at once, or losing both at once, every single time, a healthy idea in principle for the average player?"

[Ozzy123]

I just think you - that would do anything it takes to win, robben that has 0 idea about pvp and shaki (dawidio) that has 0 idea about pvp - shouldnt confuse devs with thread like this, cleave deck is not the only way to play and both sword and shield and a cutblade are perfectly viable, in some cases better in some cases worse than a b12