Suggestion: disable or limit stealing from KO'ed characters

[azrid]

Knocking out 10 sprucecaps and getting one good item is already a win in my book when it comes to early world.

Aha. And this should be the golden standard for everyone playing this game because...?

Its already not. Theres a very small % of players who participate in pvp
You'd have a better argument here to make it more harsh considering how few people do this content.

WHY should this aspect of PvP define the game? Is that the main intended purpose of being able to attack other players?

I think the game is defined by having a production base where you craft excess of gear that you can then spend in the outlands dodging the small playerbase of pvpers and trying to extract material gain for your production base.

You keep bringing up anecdotals, someone's pants, my KO etc. These have no bearing on the discussion from my standpoint.

Don't forget I brought up how people even trade in stolen gear since world 10.
Don't ignore the answer I gave you for this already.
Its not a single anecdote.

[Hesufo]

Not really, gankers in this thread are literally telling you that they are doing it for material gain only

This is so dumb, it's a moot point. It doesn't really matter what the intentions of the people involved are, because then it's always going to be the interests of the gankers vs. the interests of the ganked. You want to have an honest discussion? It needs to be about the balance of investment, counterplay, etc. Going back to that, someone made the Rust comparison. However, then, why is it so expensive to get all the full loot pvp skills in H&H the first place? You can go smack people with a rock in Rust from minute 1. Why shouldn't everyone be able to attack and fully loot each other from the get-go? Why do you get debuffs, leave scents, and receive various penalties for engaging in aggressive PVP in H&H?

I'll clue you in: the developers clearly have never intended the free PVP aspect as an all-sprucecaps-you-can-eat gankfest enabler. Once again, look at their manifesto. I dare you to find a single sentence justifying roaming gankers. Engaging in aggressive PVP in Haven & Hearth is a conscious effort that requires an investment, and is supposed to have consequences / limitations as well. It is but one aspect of the gameplay. And again, that aspect should be measured up against the extent of the losses you can inflict. In this case, the massive losses that can be inflicted upon players that have already invested considerable time building up their characters and stand to lose a lot from an unlucky encounter - or be forced to never use the equipment they can craft because of this impending risk.

[Hasta]

Theres a very small % of players who participate in pvp
<...>
you craft excess of gear that you can then spend in the outlands dodging the small playerbase of pvpers
<...>
people even trade in stolen gear since world 10. Its not a single anecdote.

It's either a small percentile of people who occasionally stumble upon a good piece of equipment (that would be anecdotal evidence), or it's a flourishing trade of gankers extracting gear from PvE sprucecaps with the SOLE intent of material gain by using it or selling it at a marketplace (that would mean that this game is not suited for me personally and would also reflect on the morals of this project and its creators). So which is it, in your opinion? Do the gankers gank for loot and take only the valuables if there's any present, or do they gank for fun and strip a character anyways just to inflict grief and misery (and if there's a valuable trinket, they surely won't throw it away like all the other worthless items)?

[Ganhart]

Not really, gankers in this thread are literally telling you that they are doing it for material gain only

This is so dumb, it's a moot point. It doesn't really matter what the intentions of the people involved are, because then it's always going to be the interests of the gankers vs. the interests of the ganked. You want to have an honest discussion? It needs to be about the balance of investment, counterplay, etc. Going back to that, someone made the Rust comparison. However, then, why is it so expensive to get all the full loot pvp skills in H&H the first place? You can go smack people with a rock in Rust from minute 1. Why shouldn't everyone be able to attack and fully loot each other from the get-go? Why do you get debuffs, leave scents, and receive various penalties for engaging in aggressive PVP in H&H?

I'll clue you in: the developers clearly have never intended the free PVP aspect as an all-sprucecaps-you-can-eat gankfest enabler. Once again, look at their manifesto. I dare you to find a single sentence justifying roaming gankers. Engaging in aggressive PVP in Haven & Hearth is a conscious effort that requires an investment, and is supposed to have consequences / limitations as well. It is but one aspect of the gameplay. And again, that aspect should be measured up against the extent of the losses you can inflict. In this case, the massive losses that can be inflicted upon players that have already invested considerable time building up their characters and stand to lose a lot from an unlucky encounter - or be forced to never use the equipment they can craft because of this impending risk.

I only judge the game by it's mechanics and not by manifesto which was written 10 years ago.
As it currently is, the fear of losing your belongings is what puts a value to your whole PVE progress. Without a risk of loosing everything, the game would just become a pve slog like Valheim
I think the whole PVP in haven is supposed to be a high-risk / high-reward scenario and I agree that currently there is not enough risk. I remember at some point you were basically unkillable unless you've bought rage skill, I think this should come back.

[azrid]

Theres a very small % of players who participate in pvp
<...>
you craft excess of gear that you can then spend in the outlands dodging the small playerbase of pvpers
<...>
people even trade in stolen gear since world 10. Its not a single anecdote.

It's either a small percentile of people who occasionally stumble upon a good piece of equipment (that would be anecdotal evidence), or it's a flourishing trade of gankers extracting gear from PvE sprucecaps with the SOLE intent of material gain by using it or selling it at a marketplace (that would mean that this game is not suited for me personally and would also reflect on the morals of this project and its creators). So which is it, in your opinion? Do the gankers gank for loot and take only the valuables if there's any present, or do they gank for fun and strip a character anyways just to inflict grief and misery (and if there's a valuable trinket, they surely won't throw it away like all the other worthless items)?

Obviously gear doesn't come from sprucecaps only. Gankers fight each other and fighters of a village.

Heres a video of a ganker hovering over spruce caps gear and not touching trash.
https://youtu.be/2I_Gs1lWg_4?si=IBZwvyLkcSEHxrJ5
Proof that you asked for previously from another poster.
Please don't dismiss this video your eyes are not lying to you.

You can lay your misery argument to rest now. Accept your defeat.

[Hasta]

the fear of losing your belongings is what puts a value to your whole PVE progress. Without a risk of loosing everything, the game would just become a pve slog like Valheim

That is your preference, I must respectfully point out that it is neither the only nor even the prevalent one. It's ok for you to have it, but it's not enough to invalidate even other players' preferences, let alone their structured and substantiated arguments.

[Ganhart]

structured and substantiated arguments.

I would consider these as preferences and assumptions rather since people already pointed out that you are objectively wrong in your judgements.

[Hasta]

Obviously gear doesn't come from sprucecaps only. Gankers fight each other and fighters of a village.

Those are not gankers then, those are PvPers, aren't they? So they make it their gameplay to procure loot from other players, is that what you're saying? Or are they just PvPing and the loot is just a non-vital addition to the process? Short answer would be enough.

Heres a video of a ganker hovering over spruce caps gear and not touching trash.
https://youtu.be/2I_Gs1lWg_4?si=IBZwvyLkcSEHxrJ5
Proof that you asked for previously from another poster.
Please don't dismiss this video your eyes are not lying to you.

This is the definition of anecdotal evidence.
I disn't ask "if there is evidence of a ganker not touching gankee's items". I specifically asked the person who claimed to be a materially-interested ganker if he makes the distinction BECAUSE he claimed that a recently ganked player had "worthless" items, by his logic he wouldn't touch them and therefore would support his claim. The video you provided doesn't have anything to do with the discussion.

You can lay your misery argument to rest now. Accept your defeat.

You'd like that wouldn't you But no, not even close. Gankers' main purpose is to inflict grief and misery, and material gain is a sidehustle at best for them.

people already pointed out that you are objectively wrong in your judgements

Kindly point to a specific quote pretty please.

[Kaios]

There are for sure plenty of players that attack, kill, loot, and destroy for the fun of it, not that I'm blaming them for it when that is something the game allows for. Kind of odd for that to even be a point of debate.

[Hasta]

There are for sure plenty of players that attack, kill, loot, and destroy for the fun of it, not that I'm blaming them for it when that is something the game allows for. Kind of odd for that to even be a point of debate.

Why? It's a perfectly good debate point. "I move the aforementioned killing and looting players should have their ability to loot get limited (to an extent). Everyone in favor say "aye"!
How is that not a valid discussion?