Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

[The_Lich_King]

I like where your head is at with this, but The Usual Suspects are generally correct in that

#1) Griefing poopsockers will just alt around this to no consequence
#2) This just makes committing any crime at all a death sentence for anyone who's not in a PVP faction, more or less

This I like the idea but dont think it will pan out as intended alot like nidbanes.

I think a system where commiting crimes based on severity gives "bad guy points" alignment, these are permanent. And punishing enough to deter people from unwarranted acts of violence. Punishing effects could be perminant stat debuffs (like wounds), increasing amount of items lootable on KO whereas crimeless characters should only have a couple items lootable on KO to again discourage unwarranted violence. Also innocent chars could take less HHP damage, similiar but replacing "murdererous rage" so bad guys are more likely to die.

People will obviously make crime/combat alts, they already do. but the idea is that even if they are just going around killing sprucecaps and never in any danger, they will should suffer enough penalties to be forced to make new characters too achieve this, slowing them down and making them question if it was worth it. encouraging them to use said crime/combat alts only on juicy targets.

People will alt spam and you will be forced to tank your chars alignment to deal with cheese so instead make it so you do not lose alignment for killing a alt that is less than a few days old.

[bmjclark]

When I posted yesterday that this was a bad idea, I didn't even read the part about there only being 20 minute windows to break it. This isn't a bad idea, it's one of the worst ideas posted on these forums and it's posted by the guy who designs the game. Fucking oof.

[grumgrumganoe]

stupid idea i wonder who shit it into jorbs ear is Marp Tarpton playing w16????????

[jordancoles]

Probably one of the worst ideas I've seen and I had to do a double take to confirm it was made by one of the devs lol

Small time gated and forced pvp interactions in specific places only favour's factions who have been known to camp things like this for weeks at a time if needed

If this were added I would just give up on having a "main" and would instead make a string of murder alts. I would also just let the challenge go through and bury the body to start over again You really don't need stats to dunk on 90% of people you just need combat discoveries, some form of edged weapon and confidence

This really reads as a "butthurt about Ainran" suggestion and I'd like to remind everyone that we have been successfully sieged and fucked with in the past, and tracking off hearthfire is always an option but for whatever reason people don't use it and choose to cry instead

This change just feels awkward and backwards. If you have a problem with someone, raid them, group up, track off HF, etc... investing some metal bars/sticks/dreams to kill a character who was a big meanie to you makes no sense

[Zampfeo]

That would also favor stronger players and would ruin the game for people who are not the strongest faction... instead of sieges being a massive time sink which makes sieging newbs really undesirable you'd see large factions siege every single base in sight until everyone quit the world then they would cry for reset couse no one is playing. It would benefit the people on the lower power scale in absolutely no way and only benefit the top.

In my experience, that's not what happens. You ask one faction for help with a siege and another faction will join the opposing side for shits and giggles.

If sieging newbs is a worry, just make brimstone more rare.

[Potjeh]

If you want to reduce frequency of crime, just make it more annoying/expensive to commit crimes.

Right now the main problem is getting raided before you can build a palisade, because wood and stone fences do nothing. What if it cost some valuable early game resource to get through, like leather or wax? Something like make it require some kind of simple siege weapon, but without a drying time.

If you want to reduce frequency of attacking people out in the wilderness, make it impossible to teleport in any way (including hearthing) until you return to your hearth manually. Would probably be a bit too annoying for faction fights, so maybe some kind of a banner could be erected to disable this restriction for crimes committed in it's area, and anyone entering it's zone would get a warning message so spruce caps can stay away.

[The_Lich_King]

If you want to reduce frequency of crime, just make it more annoying/expensive to commit crimes.

Right now the main problem is getting raided before you can build a palisade, because wood and stone fences do nothing. What if it cost some valuable early game resource to get through, like leather or wax? Something like make it require some kind of simple siege weapon, but without a drying time.

If you want to reduce frequency of attacking people out in the wilderness, make it impossible to teleport in any way (including hearthing) until you return to your hearth manually. Would probably be a bit too annoying for faction fights, so maybe some kind of a banner could be erected to disable this restriction for crimes committed in it's area, and anyone entering it's zone would get a warning message so spruce caps can stay away.

The Great Potjeh has posted : O

[Kaios]

I don't have much opinion on the specifics of the suggestion, only that it fails to address the core issue. Regardless of whether it's a personal claim, village claim, local resources, realm cairns, meteorites (Where is Meteorites, Where is Siedge), thingwall challenge, or whatever else, most players lack the tools to properly engage in defending or attacking. It may sound a bit crass but a player with relatively decent stats and some knowledge of combat would also be considered a tool in this case.

Other than oneself, what else is available to engage in conflict with another player? Siege has had some improvements in that regard but there is certainly room for a lot more. The back and forth of combat, running around in circles, really gets quite boring and repetitive at least for me. In most situations all it boils down to is someone making a mistake like leaving their openings just a little too high for too long and then they get dive bombed. It lacks a certain... I don't know, finesse.

I do think you should also lean into the political and economic aspects further and try to come up with some systems that might impact those areas in some way, rather than trying to force conflict based on some arbitrary mechanic. Not everything needs to be immediately resolved with violence, but perhaps integrating other factors that go beyond the scope of simple "he steal rock, die" might at least have the effect of creating more interesting scenarios that do lead to direct conflicts.

If this were added I would just give up on having a "main" and would instead make a string of murder alts.

I already did ages ago, minus the murder part.

[tyrtix]

If you want to reduce frequency of crime, just make it more annoying/expensive to commit crimes.

Right now the main problem is getting raided before you can build a palisade, because wood and stone fences do nothing. What if it cost some valuable early game resource to get through, like leather or wax? Something like make it require some kind of simple siege weapon, but without a drying time.

If you want to reduce frequency of attacking people out in the wilderness, make it impossible to teleport in any way (including hearthing) until you return to your hearth manually. Would probably be a bit too annoying for faction fights, so maybe some kind of a banner could be erected to disable this restriction for crimes committed in it's area, and anyone entering it's zone would get a warning message so spruce caps can stay away.

Looks a decent proposal, but i think may have some problems...still good enough.

Criminals are mainly of two kinds: thieves and murderers.
First ones have an advantage in game rn: locks need to be researched and installed, and they have often a very low ql as they're made of wood, so best ql you can get is likely around 15-20 now that we have better ql trees from start. Sadly this means that with very, very few stealth points you can just nullify any lock. At higher levels, gildings helps a lot against locks and are pretty easy to make, a 10ql single bone gives +5 stealth, translating to any thief having 200 stealth with just 100 points invested.
Until this stuff is addressed, there's nothing to do against thieves except hunting them down.

Maybe also studying a number of scents could give away the identity of the criminal, and with more scents can also lower his stealth too.

Murderers... they can just permakill you if they know what to do, they often are in party so there's little you can do except hope they will just ko and steal instead of kill. Siege is a matter of just showing you have a bit of valuable stuff, short of a pally nothing saves you.

Planting a "siege banner" on ground and having even the basic fence have some soak and need to be bashed would at least give some sort of annoyance for murderers and sort of safe place for sprucecaps for not beign killed right away: just a half hour of protection for claim should work.

[Kaios]

Oh and if you're going to stick with Initiative Points being the basis for combat it should probably have an upper limit. There's no reason to be careful about IP when you're running around with 50 or more and consistently gaining them from your own or your target's moves.