P2P plan

[Zolbad]

THE SOLUTION: bare with me

Yes guys it's pay to play now.
I've been playing since World 1 under a few different names. Guess what the biggest issue with the game has always been? Botting and alts, before curios bots would literally cut trees for LP and the whole system was extremely bottable. Then came the curios, but problem there was eventually you could feed 5 alts with curios, which just ended up making the game bot for you.

So now, they introduced experience, which seems like a plan to make the players actually use the character to use curios. Which seems like decent plan. But there it's still possible.

And now finally the game is P2P beyond 12 hours a month, which not only supports the devs who put ~25,000 hours each into this game. But suddenly makes botting a bit more difficult. So in the end, I do support this change. And even if the sub would be $30, each of you know that you owe Jorb and Loftar something for consuming a least a month of your lives. In the end the devs will probably never get the pay they deserve off of the hours they put into this game. So the least you can do is pay for a lunch.

For those you actually cannot afford this payment for whatever reason. I guess you have a reason to feel sad, but don't feel too bad. As there are Game Time items. Which can be traded, consumed, and stolen. I'm sure you'll find a way to get by if you're fairly experienced

[earllohst]

THE SOLUTION: bare with me

Yes guys it's pay to play now.
I've been playing since World 1 under a few different names. Guess what the biggest issue with the game has always been? Botting and alts, before curios bots would literally cut trees for LP and the whole system was extremely bottable. Then came the curios, but problem there was eventually you could feed 5 alts with curios, which just ended up making the game bot for you.

So now, they introduced experience, which seems like a plan to make the players actually use the character to use curios. Which seems like decent plan. But there it's still possible.

And now finally the game is P2P beyond 12 hours a month, which not only supports the devs who put ~25,000 hours each into this game. But suddenly makes botting a bit more difficult. So in the end, I do support this change. And even if the sub would be $30, each of you know that you owe Jorb and Loftar something for consuming a least a month of your lives. In the end the devs will probably never get the pay they deserve off of the hours they put into this game. So the least you can do is pay for a lunch.

For those you actually cannot afford this payment for whatever reason. I guess you have a reason to feel sad, but don't feel too bad. As there are Game Time items. Which can be traded, consumed, and stolen. I'm sure you'll find a way to get by if you're fairly experienced

Listen to this gentlemen here people ^

He speaks the truth.

[Vexus]

Yeah I don't know what you guys keep complaining about.

The Pay mechanic is for an in-game item you can trade. So just grind in your free to play time to be able to buy the items from other players. It is still possible to play for free, you just have to actually play and engage in the economy. Nothing wrong with that.

Damn, EVE does this. What is the big deal? EVE last I played wouldn't even let you trial.

[Remotion]

Yeah I don't know what you guys keep complaining about.

The Pay mechanic is for an in-game item you can trade. So just grind in your free to play time to be able to buy the items from other players. It is still possible to play for free, you just have to actually play and engage in the economy. Nothing wrong with that.

Damn, EVE does this. What is the big deal? EVE last I played wouldn't even let you trial.

EVE is a finished game with a team larger than two that's been alive and thriving for years. Haven 2.0 has been in alpha for a few days and has a few thousand players at most, and a dev team of 2 people. I'm not against paying for shit but 15$ a month is criminal, I'd buy it for a one fee time of 15-20, 5 bucks a month, or if it was f2p with microtransactions in the form of being able to paint furniture items, hats, yeomanry skull designs, etc.

[Virulentation]

Oh I agree it's a decent system in that regard, but I still find the argument of saying "Lol grind with your free time for more time" to be... Ignorant. You claim to have been playing the game since world 1, yet you don't seem to understand that getting anything worth while in 12 hours isn't possible in the slightest. You'd have to be very lucky and cross an old plot that's lost it's claim, or have friends to give it to you. Along with that, free players can't even try maintain plots of land, that'd require them to do extreme time management skills on a game that requires a whole lot of time.

So, gentlemen, if you wish to make that argument, perhaps you, yourself, should make a free account, and try thrive with twelve hours a month, perhaps grab this fabled game time and have a jolly good time. When a game becomes a chore, it's no longer a game, it's work. Have a lovely evening.

[Ants]

Is anyone else wary of paying because they don't trust Jorbtar to take good care of the game? Judging by how they've handled the old H&H and Salem, I feel like they can't be trusted to get decent servers, to fix glitches or to make frequent updates. And, well, it's obvious to everyone that the money that can be made by monetizing this game will not be enough to keep Jorb and Loftar from having to get other jobs. I am afraid this game will really stay in a permanent pre-alpha phase and honestly, it feels like the devs are trying to swindle us by trying to sell their sub-par product for this price. The way they've been handling all this (example: literally telling a guy to go fuck himself) only adds to the feeling that they do not care about their customers. It's insulting and it stings.

Jorb's answer to any critiques: If you don't like it, go play something else.
That's how games fail.

You know when you go to a chinese restaurant but you wanted indian food? They would refuse to serve you it regardless of how much you kicked off, a game is exactly the same. Too much is bad, you can't cater to everyone, and you can't expect the devs to cater to you because you're a broke ass bitch.

Except this Chinese restaurant used to be an Indian restaurant and the broke ass bitches are most of the community. Look at the nationalities of people playing right now. Most of them are not from wealthy countries. Nobody wants the Chinese food and a business with no customers is a dead business, so making an effort to keep people around would probably be beneficial for Jorbtar.

Wurm, which is cheaper
Salem for example

1 month currently costs 8 Euro. $8.94. Wow what a huge saving of $1.06

not to mention wurm is a bag of shit, same goes for salem.

I played Salem a few years ago. It's really not that different from H&H, it's free and the devs actually respect and value the community.

[Audiosmurf]

JC respects and values the Salem community.

Are you high? The disdain that MM has shown for their player base since they took over has been out of this world.

[Ants]

JC respects and values the Salem community.

Are you high? The disdain that MM has shown for their player base since they took over has been out of this world.

How so? To be honest I've been out of touch with the Salem community for a while so I don't really know what has been happening. All I've heard were good things, though-- don't they do weekly updates?

[Shipright]

I am a new customer. I had never heard of Haven and Hearth until a month ago. I ran across the demo video for the new build on an indie gamer dev site back then and was amazed at what I discovered and angry at what I missed out on for the better part of the last decade.

So I came here and poured over the boards and played a handful of hours of the legacy build to get the hang of it. Loved it. I was very excited for the new release and the old build just teased me because I knew there was little point it spending to much time and effort in a world about to end. So I waited. I recruited some friends to join me on launch so we could be on the ground floor of a new world.

Despite all that enthusiasm and forum reading never once did I encounter any mention of P2P. It is irrelevant that it was mentioned randomly in some thread years ago or in an IRC channel 1% of players frequent. There is a dedicated announcement sub forum with no topped anouncement. In all the collected feature threads not a peep. In all the launch trailors specifically produced to draw back in old players or pull in new ones not a single mention. That is not an accident. It's not that the game shouldn't make money, it's that this was purposely obscured from fans and customers and more importantly people who probably already donated to the project. On top of that the price is ridiculous for a product advertised as perpetual alpha. I can go on Steam right now and pick up three decent discount titles less than a year old for the price of one month of HnH play time. That is deal breaker number one.

Number two is that it was impossible to group play. This was announced beforehand no I do understand some of the gameplay considerations that led to the decision but the end result is you had four new players with zero invested in the franchise who wandered around for a couple hours looking for each other with no luck. That means not enjoying any other feature of the game (and no the piggish homemade 3D graphics are not a treat to wander through. You should have strayed 2D if you can't do 3D to contemporary competency) during that time. We gave up. I may return perhaps but you failed to set the hook for the three friends of mine. So not only is the surprise P2P an annoyance but you failed to show potential new players (aka customers aka pay days) a reason to pay in the first place.

Just a newbies perspective. Also a responsive developer is a godsend. I have given more than a years subscription to HNH to kickstarters with nothing to show but a trailer video and a few are defunct years later without a game released. They had responsive developers who shared insights into their process and progress and valued their customers/donors input so for a guy into indie game dev that was worth it all by itself. I thought this might have been the case here even if more snarky in character but the devs response to valid criticism here has been atrocious. contempt for your customers is not a sign of a good developer, and definitely not a successful one.

TLDR
If you want to attract new pliers to pay for a $15/month game then develope a $15/month game with a meaningful and grabbing up front experience.

[jorb]

$10.

Lord have mercy, $10.