Crime & Punishment: Holmgang

[Mepp]

Add ways to defend your base while offline like Braziers and Trapped Chests from Salem. The Stocks are also a great idea but HnH lacks a main-city to make it functional. I just wish there was more crime and not less. It's a system most players don't get to explore.

It should be expected to get some of your stuff stolen from time to time. Actual valueable items are stored on alts anyway.

[Audiosmurf]

I would honestly love traps

[Dawidio123]

Add ways to defend your base while offline like Braziers and Trapped Chests from Salem. The Stocks are also a great idea but HnH lacks a main-city to make it functional. I just wish there was more crime and not less. It's a system most players don't get to explore.

It should be expected to get some of your stuff stolen from time to time. Actual valueable items are stored on alts anyway.

No, stocks are literal dogshit system in salem. If you played salem and actually enjoy the stock system you probably never raided anyone. Stocks literally make it so you have to stay up 24/7 with your char or permanently lose stats/die bcs someone got your scent, no counter-play to that.

[The_Lich_King]

If you want to reduce frequency of crime, just make it more annoying/expensive to commit crimes.

Right now the main problem is getting raided before you can build a palisade, because wood and stone fences do nothing. What if it cost some valuable early game resource to get through, like leather or wax? Something like make it require some kind of simple siege weapon, but without a drying time.

If you want to reduce frequency of attacking people out in the wilderness, make it impossible to teleport in any way (including hearthing) until you return to your hearth manually. Would probably be a bit too annoying for faction fights, so maybe some kind of a banner could be erected to disable this restriction for crimes committed in it's area, and anyone entering it's zone would get a warning message so spruce caps can stay away.

Looks a decent proposal, but i think may have some problems...still good enough.

Criminals are mainly of two kinds: thieves and murderers.
First ones have an advantage in game rn: locks need to be researched and installed, and they have often a very low ql as they're made of wood, so best ql you can get is likely around 15-20 now that we have better ql trees from start. Sadly this means that with very, very few stealth points you can just nullify any lock. At higher levels, gildings helps a lot against locks and are pretty easy to make, a 10ql single bone gives +5 stealth, translating to any thief having 200 stealth with just 100 points invested.
Until this stuff is addressed, there's nothing to do against thieves except hunting them down.

Maybe also studying a number of scents could give away the identity of the criminal, and with more scents can also lower his stealth too.

Murderers... they can just permakill you if they know what to do, they often are in party so there's little you can do except hope they will just ko and steal instead of kill. Siege is a matter of just showing you have a bit of valuable stuff, short of a pally nothing saves you.

Planting a "siege banner" on ground and having even the basic fence have some soak and need to be bashed would at least give some sort of annoyance for murderers and sort of safe place for sprucecaps for not beign killed right away: just a half hour of protection for claim should work.

but picking locks barely matters because you can't pick gate locks or vehicle locks so literally once you get your wall up lock picking is not something you have to worry about... as for siege its kind of a case of the bigger guy bullies the smaller one because as long as sieging is in the game it will be used against you by large factions since you can't really defend against it. What we really could do without is the KOSing. If you can't hearth when aggro'd then it means that a raider can just aggro you and you are stuck with him until one of you runs out of water and it is likely going to be you.

I think it would help the KOSing if there was a wait time you had to wait before you could aggro someone. That way they can't just immediately aggro you, and you actually have the potential to genuinely get to a place where you can hearth.

[SnuggleSnail]

love traps

same

[Kaios]

While I'm at it you guys have this great foundation for an interesting magic system but you utilize it in the most mundane ways possible. There are so many options that go beyond polishing cutlery or boosting metal output, like Nidbanes are in my opinion one of the most unique additions to hearth magic you have ever added but unfortunately they don't meaningfully impact any of the players that they should. Plus they are a pain to create when their recipe includes a fate material, if that's still a thing, furthering how ineffective they are.

Perhaps consider providing players the means to apply a little more strategy, investigation, or espionage when dealing with others. Using how the troll eye works as an example, it might be interesting if you could do something similar with other methods such as right click an active nidbane fetter and view the nidbane's current position. There would need to be some limitations on mechanics like that of course such as a limit on the amount of viewing time, how often it can be utilized in a certain time-frame, if possible don't provide the map details, let a target (if the target is a player) know they are being watched, and maybe in the case of a nidbane it stops moving while it's being viewed.

Roads are kind of like this already, but it could also be interesting if there were some type of object that could be constructed, imbued with hearth magic and hidden, and then acts as some type of viewing beacon for the player to view the location with some associated item. Use tracking plus some combination of stats to determine if they are spotted, could decay in a fairly short period of time (2+ hours?). Use Hearth Magic to gain the sight of a bird already spawned in a random location, etc. Obviously systems like those could be easily abused in order to gank unsuspecting players so I'm not saying that's a good suggestion without making some changes/alterations as to how it may be implemented, only that there are other possibilities you should consider trying.

[DDDsDD999]

Perhaps consider providing players the means to apply a little more strategy, investigation, or espionage when dealing with others. Using how the troll eye works as an example, it might be interesting if you could do something similar with other methods such as right click an active nidbane fetter and view the nidbane's current position. There would need to be some limitations on mechanics like that of course such as a limit on the amount of viewing time, how often it can be utilized in a certain time-frame, if possible don't provide the map details, let a target (if the target is a player) know they are being watched, and maybe in the case of a nidbane it stops moving while it's being viewed.

Most of that just sounds like this https://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Scrying_Ball

[Kaios]

Most of that just sounds like this https://ringofbrodgar.com/wiki/Scrying_Ball

Oh cool, I had no idea that existed. Not sure how useful it is or in what capacity most people use it for, I'd assume mainly faction dudes scrying for locations on random scents or after getting in a fight with someone. I think it might be helpful for both players looking for conflict and those looking to avoid it if there were some options like that which don't require a scent in order to utilize them, while not targeting any player in particular, but maybe that's a bit overpowered.

[Reiber]

problem with the scrying and nidbane mechanics, is that its just even more unlikely you get something out of it, than some spruce challenging some top faction fighter and all his friends to an 1vtheir entire village.

mandrakes, are an incredibly rare (fated) resource with limited shelflife,
meaning that nabs that got ganked never have one,
and 9/10 of those you find, are going to spoil.

meaning the best thing to do with them for people that arent part of a faction with a substancial fighting force, and are constantly beefing with other factions, is selling them to a faction,

besides that , fethers and scrying juice is quality and stat dependant, so you either have a stealth X psy X int X explo X perc X dex X strg alt sitting in your hermitage, and access to top Q materials or you are some factions gemcutter.

but at that point you can just throw out nidbanes against random scents you found outside, and hope you found some spuce on spuce crimescent, from people that couldnt beat a fox. , because the mandrake will rott anyway.

there simply is no way in this game to differentiate a well meaning nab, vs a botted alt. ending up with every of these systems, having the same dynamic as crime itself.
you can either not , or only very limited, interact with it,
and those who can , can abuse it, cause the same thing making them better at fucking you over makes them immune to be fucked with, and vice versa.

and if you make something accessible to the havenots. you also made it accessible, to the most basic of bots, on the least costly of alts. and snail is gonna send 200 nids after every spuce setting foot on his trapped thinwalls.

[Kaios]

Those are all fair points but that's actually some of the reasons why I'm proposing such mechanics should be implemented. Faction players are going to get all that information anyways (see: https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=76693), what the average player lacks are tools to help them gather information. Where is the player from that attacked me? When are they active? Where do they roam? Do they have road networks and where do they lead? Placing an alt in front of someone's village isn't all that different from placing some type of magical scrying device, except that the alt is visible and also requires leaving at least battery (but probably murder) to get rid of.

I know how much player killers hate travelling 10 hours across the map just to loot nettle pants from one sprucecap, but I hate spending 10 hours to track your scents for no reason just as much.