RFC: Metal spiraling

[MagicManICT]

I did see an interesting video about how to make swords, you basicly put iron ore, some coal and some other material in to a clay crucible to craft one bar of steel, that they later on made in to a viking sword.

I'm assuming they cast a bar of steel, and then forged a weapon from that bar. You can cast knife blades and such, but they're not durable. Think of it as the difference between a $5 and a $500 knife. The $5 knife will need to be sharpened every other time you use it. The $500 knife will hold an edge throughout your work, whether it's simply chopping enough vegetables for your dinner or you're putting in 8 hours as a broiler cook at a restaurant.

This could be solved by reducing the amount of ore mined per tile or found, making metal a lot more rare and valuable.

Maybe make so ore is less commonly found close to the surface but less rare the further down you go.
This would slow down the world progress, sins people would need a lot more str, con, agi to mine further down... but this could give botters a head start... i do not know.

Reducing the amount of ore is one proposal, yes, but as far as depth goes, maybe you don't know how quickly most major groups reach the bottom. It's usually the first week, sometimes as early as day 4 or 5. This would do little other than frustrate the average player. Even if you raise the bar by requiring more strength, it'd have to be a very significant increase.

[Grimrock]

I did see an interesting video about how to make swords, you basicly put iron ore, some coal and some other material in to a clay crucible to craft one bar of steel, that they later on made in to a viking sword.

I'm assuming they cast a bar of steel, and then forged a weapon from that bar. You can cast knife blades and such, but they're not durable. Think of it as the difference between a $5 and a $500 knife. The $5 knife will need to be sharpened every other time you use it. The $500 knife will hold an edge throughout your work, whether it's simply chopping enough vegetables for your dinner or you're putting in 8 hours as a broiler cook at a restaurant.

This is correct. - Avrage steal got 0,83% carbon (Normal steel is between 0,008% and 2% carbon, cast iron is 2% to 6,67% carbon i think). After you mixed the iron and coal and heated up so you could mix it, you cool it down to 723 degrees C (1333 farenheit). What you do with the steel during the cooling from 723 to 210 C is the important part on how strong the steel becomes. - If you rapidly cool it down in like 2 seconds, it wil all form very hard and brittle metal called "Martensite" (If you reheat martensite to a temperatur below 723 and 250 C or so you get tempered steel), if you cool it down to say 500 and hold it there for 160 hours, you get 100% bainite. If you do the same at 550-670 for 160 hours you get 100% pearlite (If you reheat pearlite for a while below 723 and 250 or so C you get spheroidite).
You cool the piece of steel you got in the right way to get the right % of the steel types you want in your tool, you can also combine diffrent steel types in one tool, like having a hard martensite center with steel with some % of bainite/pearlite/tempered steel on the outside to make it softer and less brittle, while keeping the very hard brittler center.
Google search Pearlite, Bainite and Martensite and you can see very very diffrent structures in a microscope which changes the strength and uses the steel (How soft/hard/brittle it is etc). The cheapest metal to make, is the martensite, where you just heat the metal and quence it fast in cold water. - While pearlite is expensive due to the need of holding it on 650C for alot of hours (You can calculate this with a TTT diagram for steel) + Alot of other costs like purity etc... advanced stuff, but the 500 dollar knife got it's price for a reason!

This could be solved by reducing the amount of ore mined per tile or found, making metal a lot more rare and valuable.

Maybe make so ore is less commonly found close to the surface but less rare the further down you go.
This would slow down the world progress, sins people would need a lot more str, con, agi to mine further down... but this could give botters a head start... i do not know.

Reducing the amount of ore is one proposal, yes, but as far as depth goes, maybe you don't know how quickly most major groups reach the bottom. It's usually the first week, sometimes as early as day 4 or 5. This would do little other than frustrate the average player. Even if you raise the bar by requiring more strength, it'd have to be a very significant increase.[/quote]

I hope that the quality of metalls should come like 33% from the sorce of the metall and 67% from the tools. - No more spiralling... I much rather have a system that awards finding good metals and saving them for the right time to craft a very high value weapon or tool, a legendary item people want to get their hands on. - A very very small chanse to make a "perfect" item, which wil hold high value troughout the duration of the world. I want more focus on the hunt for the the best raw materials and saving them for the right use, looking at that valuable orechunk in your cupboard or in a special stockpile for the perfect ore. Saving it until you got as good tools you can obtain, and as high skill and the blacksmiting credos unlocked to finally use it in your (if your lucky) masterpiece!

But i understand that a big goal for alot of players is to progress the highest Q item to the infinite with the spiralling mechanic combined with trade, grinding to spirall higher then your competition.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Ore really is too prevalent overall... Far too much 'Throw a pickaxe at a wall, mine ore' going on. Even late in the world you could find massive veins easily available just about anywhere near a cave entrance. There's really no challenge involved in finding this resource, nor reason to fight over it. It's just a fact of existence, rather than something precious or even mildly valuable.

[Tyrian]

i find quality of "fuel" should ignore the quality in formula and rather , play role in the "burn" process

so rather high quality fuels (any kind of thing that burn) their quality should affect for how long they burn.

next thing is coal , smelting fuels only binding to coal is another no no. u can smelt nowadays any kind of metals even with simple sticks if you know how to "tinker".

cuz everytime i put tones of coal in to the smelter i feel like retard doing it totaly messed up and wrong.

if you would replace quality of coal rather with duration , this would at least fix this and make it more "logic".

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another thing is too much pointless waste , instead of "calculate right from the start if its ore or waste when its smelted"
change it to something that fix this RNG or removes it. so if you found ore and u hold ore , then u smelt it still ore.

best example of how things are done right , is terrafirma craff mod for minecraft.
they dont have "junk" if you find ore it has different quality , which determines amount of "pure" ore you get from this piece. so when ever you find ore u know , this much i get from it , or if you find high quality ore , u try to get as much as possible , because its worth it.

in hAh , mining is pointless , because even if you dig out tons of ores, u have to spend pointless weeks smelting it down , while 99% of that will be junk anyways, it removes any reason to do so.

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supports need to have "metal" piece removed from their contruction recipe , for easier mining , otherwise it renders mining in this game pointless , because its not profit-able at all , additionaly u run danger of being 1 hit killed by a troll... which renders mining totaly pointless to the root.

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piles for stones need to be increased or in case it takes to much memory , changed to something similar to barrel, where it rounds quality , since u want to use it for decoration it would be ok.

[kitsune121x]

I think being able to improve the quality of All Metals by doing that should be a thing
it should apply for copper and Tin to

[Buffalo_Bill]

All metal working is completely fictional in haven. Very little historical accuracy that's for sure it seems the devs went with more of a early 1800's but still its not very accurate

[Sevenless]

Realism <<< Immersion

As long as the world feels real within its own rules, the devs are doing fine. Some games achieve this through realism to varying degrees but it's not a prerequisite.