A frank discussion on pvp

[Vert]

It seems you don't understand that the topic is about diversity, no one is suggesting to cancel the deck with cleave, but to offer alternatives to it, and if the cleave deck offers a unique opportunity to kill, let it be more difficult and demanding, even possibly situational. Why does no one play through ravens byte, because it can't penetrate armor like cleave does and can't kill like cleave does. It is the same in complexity as cleave, just weaker in results

[DonVelD]

Except... people use ravens bite? Depends on your team. People also use uppercut flex sting deck. Just be more creative rather than being a dumbass that just sticks to what is used the most.

I like B12 Cleave, but i also have used B12 ravens bite, and dabbled in a sting deck with a cutblade. Any combo worked, unless ridiculous.

Change yourself instead of the game.

Besides, a cleave deck is demanding already which is why almost everyone likes it. Its very clear you don't actually PVP, you only observe it on forum shittalk or PVP videos.

[wonder-ass]

What do you mean not enough diversity?

Full circle sting decks for spears
Kito cleave decks for b12
Uppercut ravensbite decks for b12
flex sting decks for cutblade/swords
prev nerfed go for the jug decks
Now sos decks which deserve a nerf

[Vert]

Yeah, that's why any screenshots and videos show cleave in equal battles. Probably if I saw the use of Raven Byte I wouldn't write.

[DonVelD]

Yeah, that's why any screenshots and videos show cleave in equal battles. Probably if I saw the use of Raven Byte I wouldn't write.

I saw a few + I used Ravens Bite a bunch of times.

There's actually a bunch of cool strats you can pull off with raven.

You can also look for Cleminses PVP videos which show him using primarily sting.

A lot of moves are being used, its just that your typical Felix/Ozzy pvp videos mostly show cleave decks cause it works really good with combat med etc, and that's what they're good at anyways.

[wonder-ass]

Yeah, that's why any screenshots and videos show cleave in equal battles. Probably if I saw the use of Raven Byte I wouldn't write.

Not bcs its bad but because if you use a ravensbite deck people call you a retard and dont fight you because its significantly easier than cleave decks.

There is a reason everyone wants cleave to be used and be the meta, its the only deck with a proper skill ceiling and not relying on stat checking.

[overtyped]

Yeah, that's why any screenshots and videos show cleave in equal battles. Probably if I saw the use of Raven Byte I wouldn't write.

Not bcs its bad but because if you use a ravensbite deck people call you a retard and dont fight you because its significantly easier than cleave decks.

There is a reason everyone wants cleave to be used and be the meta, its the only deck with a proper skill ceiling and not relying on stat checking.

Everyone ? 90% of the playerbase are noobs and casuals who don't post. Where are all the noobs talking about how much they love cleave? They are still punching bats, and figuring out how to one day defeat a bear.

No, a subset of the 10% wants the cleave meta. Meanwhile the other 90% still finds combat is too hard, but without that 90%, there is no game.

To say it without bias, the reality for the past 15 years is that a minority of pvpers have shaped the pvp meta to be favourable to them, and I'm no different. The more it's shaped to fit the pvpers needs, the more it's out of the hands of the casuals. I have said before that noobs being able to fight benefits me, and thats why I care about this issue now, and not in the past.

The other issue has been hashed out in this thread and makes a lot of sense.
Pvp can't be written up as X build beats X build. It actually comes down to that factions own personal goals. The pvpers want ko's/kills and loot. The noobs just want to survive. The truth is both have been accommodated this world. During the siege of whatever bay, we got downed, and lost 10x more sets than the enemy side.

We then "won" the siege with these atrocious results because we had a move that casuals could use. Yes, it doesn't cause kos, but thats the tradeoff.

So who won that siege? The pvpers think they won, but are unhappy that they didn't get to have their cake and eat it too, and the noobs think they won, because they got some cake. So why do I think SoS is going away? Well, the only difference is that noobs and casuals don't shape the meta and they don't post, meaning Jorb won't ever see their input in a great enough number to be meaningful. That's why I know SoS will go away. It is inevitable.

[DonVelD]

Shut yo dumb ass up, if someone is bad at the game they should improve and adapt, youre not supposed to make the game more shit

[dafels]

Yeah so reduce all combat down to pressing 1 button isn't it? It will help all the noobs that's for sure, maybe just remove combat it will be most helpful for the noobs? Nothing to discover and nothing to be learned. It will be easier for everyone +1 agree also you have to read the Developer Thoughts about PvP and spend some time on it if you feel like you don't understand it firsthand

[overtyped]

Yeah so reduce all combat down to pressing 1 button isn't it? It will help all the noobs that's for sure, maybe just remove combat it will be most helpful for the noobs? Nothing to discover and nothing to be learned. It will be easier for everyone +1 agree also you have to read the Developer Thoughts about PvP and spend some time on it if you feel like you don't understand it firsthand

That's the opposite of what I wrote.

No, I didn't say that everything should be one button. I specifically brought up that pvpers and noobs want different things, and they don't necessarily interfere. A pvpers goal is ko's, and a noobs goal is survival.

Even the idea of a 1 button attack is misleading. That 1 button attack doesn't get ko's, so by a pvpers definition it's a move that can never win.

Noobs aren't getting ko's, and I don't necessarily have an issue with that either. But this is all still moot. The noobs aren't here, it's loud sweaties. You'll get what you want as usual.