P2P plan

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Jorb betrayed himself

Postby shadyg0d » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:33 pm

strpk0 wrote:
Jesus_Smith_Nandez wrote:"Character development rate" =/= "convenience"
If you get more out of something through doing the same amount of work just because you spent money that is the definition of p2w


Yes, but as a player I don't feel like I MUST pay in order to stand a chance against everyone else that is "p2w", or at the very least to have my fun with the game. The way I see it, if you really MUST be on the same level as everyone that pays for a subscription for some reason, then either put in more work or simply pay for the damn thing (which I'm pretty sure is what the devs had in mind when they changed the payment model to begin with).
Also, the current payment model means spending thousands of dollars won't get you any further than someone that spends the bare minimum on the subscriptions, unlike many actual p2w games.

I'm not saying the current payment model is perfect, I know it is not (and what you mentioned is possibly one of the reasons why). But it is a damn heck of a lot better than what was in place when the new version of haven launched. I also understand that it is normal (and honestly only logical) for developers to want something in return for their work (whether the work in question is a game or anything else), which is why I'm ok with the current model. I'm all for people coming up with better payment models that favor both the devs and the players (and let's face it, hat simulator isn't going to cut it, hence why the current subscription benefits exist), but I'm not going to show support for people that simply want to troll and cry because their game isn't 100% free and just assume the devs are greedy asshats because they themselves don't know what it takes to develop a game like this.


I stand by this post. I am very anti p2w but the fact is it doesn't prevent me from wanting to play, at least with haven. If it become any more p2w than the current system I'd probably quit. I'm against it in general but until they come up with something better this is definitely a better system than they originally had with Hafen.

Honestly if I were in charge I would think about putting all the money into a MASSIVE advertising campaign and making the game pay 2 play with everyone on a level playing field. One straight-forward subscription type, no confusing BS, no p2w. If people don't want to pay then fuck em, find new customers who are actually willing to pay. There is no reason you should feel guilty charging money for a game. If it's not worth the money to somebody then they don't get to play. It's that simple. I think charging money shows that you are serious about the future of the game and willing to take risks in order to escape the stagnate development cycle that the game is currently stuck in. I don't see this game ever becoming "successful" without taking a risk at some point. It will never gain the momentum it needs with the way things are. And we will never know how many people are actually willing to pay until they are forced to under a reasonable system.

Not that I know anything about running this company. I just think if the game is ever going to become huge it will need to make a leap at some point and it will inevitably disappoint some people. It seems like a lot of directions are being taken by people who would never shell out the money to play. The fear of disappointing them seems to be biggest limiting factor to development. There are plenty of people who love this game enough to pay, and plenty of people who would pay if they simply knew about the game. So instead of catering to regulars who only criticize things and never support the devs, and having the p2w players pick up the tab, why not take the next big step? Take a leap of faith? I mean one of the main issues with the previous pay2play was that it was dropped on everyone with no warning and it was confusing and not well thought out to begin with. I think people would not object so much if it was just a straightforward subscription, no confusing BS, no different subscription levels, no teasing people with useless "free accounts", and a proper warning as not to get everyone's hopes up for a new world.
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Re: P2P plan

Postby borka » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:32 am

It seems like a lot of directions are being taken by people who would never shell out the money to play.


i think jorb and loftar are aware what ppl "shell out" ... and in my opinion it reflects in their development ...

where development is an ongoing process - it's not that they're blind and deaf ... (to err is human ...)

well i can't say much i only have one Store point to choose from :P
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Re: P2P plan

Postby xiaok » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:43 am

I have been in and out of this game since 2009-2010. I was a junior in high school and me and this kid in my chemistry class were talking about sandbox games and I mentioned how there never was a true pure survival wildnerness game with permadeath. He told me about Haven and Hearth and I was just blown away at the beauty and how close to perfect the game fit my ideas. I wasn't really sure how to play but I continued determined to get over the curve. I played a few months here and a few months there, watching the worlds change and new systems implemented. Many people stayed loyal and new people came in.

I was never around long enough to make friends or pipe up, but I will say I am glad Jorb and Loftar have taken SOME kind of step towards making this game bigger. I am not afraid to donate towards the cause but the idea of pay to win kind of defeats the whole experiment. It ruins the purity of the game. I'm not really against it though, because they need to do something. Maybe they should have announced the design first, but it is what it is and there is not really a large enough community to destroy. A lot of the users here are loyal and are here for the game. If people don't pay then they will have to change it. Very difficult to work such a unique game with only two developers. It really is something authentic that you can't find anywhere else. I'm willing to support it as long as the game is up. Within reason. Things would change if it turned out like Runescape, college project in 01 butchered up, handed off and turned into a hideous money farm by 2009.
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Re: P2P plan

Postby Glorthan » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:17 am

xiaok wrote: I was never around long enough to make friends or pipe up, but I will say I am glad Jorb and Loftar have taken SOME kind of step towards making this game bigger. I am not afraid to donate towards the cause but the idea of pay to win kind of defeats the whole experiment. It ruins the purity of the game. I'm not really against it though, because they need to do something. Maybe they should have announced the design first, but it is what it is and there is not really a large enough community to destroy. A lot of the users here are loyal and are here for the game. If people don't pay then they will have to change it. Very difficult to work such a unique game with only two developers. It really is something authentic that you can't find anywhere else. I'm willing to support it as long as the game is up. Within reason. Things would change if it turned out like Runescape, college project in 01 butchered up, handed off and turned into a hideous money farm by 2009.

Runescape had a similar subscription payment model not many years after its inception. The difference was without paying the sub you only had access to very stripped down game, as opposed to H&H's much more lenient approach.

I'm not sure what runescape's like these days, I only really played it up to about mid 2006.
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Re: P2P plan

Postby xiaok » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:10 am

I totally didn't mind the early membership concept. Today's version is horrid. Basically the ability to purchase gold and items with real world cash. Stopped playing years ago, but I overhear things
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Re: P2P plan

Postby dafels » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:10 pm

xiaok wrote: Basically the ability to purchase gold and items with real world cash.

Like people weren't doing that before sub tokens? Now the money atleast goes to devs instead of going to some 3rd party shitter
Jorb and loftar are 0.01$ shills.
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Re: P2P plan

Postby giantsfrey » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:33 am

I'm not anti-pay-to-play, per se, but here are my thoughts on the main thing that would prevent me from paying regularly (EG:permadeath):
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=54632
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Re: P2P plan

Postby avros008 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:27 pm

This game needs steam and erase all paytowin stuff.
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Re: P2P plan

Postby Dominick » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:31 pm

avros008 wrote:erase all paytowin stuff.


Pay... to win? uhm. Since what now?

If you're talking about subscription benefits... that's hardly pay to win. Unless you're talking about the hats. Those are totally pay to win. :roll:
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Re: P2P plan

Postby Sevenless » Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:45 pm

I honestly feel like this is the most motivating/enjoyable system yet. I don't consider it a "truly free to play" game, but the devs gotta eat. I don't feel f2p players are hindered enough that they can't enjoy the game, but it motivates me to pay for myself.
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