Controversial Names / Naming

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Controversial Names / Naming

Postby Vaku » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:42 am

I came across this crossroad object today, and it occurred to me — something very significant changed about how I view the nature of racial epithets, and the use of other controversial language in this game.

Image

Haven and Hearth has shifted to, fundamentally, a pay-to-play model, and in that shift, I feel that there's a mounting pressure that this sort of controversial naming needs to be reigned in.

I arrive at this sensation, because now—rather than a free social experiment, this game and company has evolved into a business, and as a business, there comes that inherent expectation of professionalism. And in such an expectation, there is the notion that subscribers need to meet a minimum level of respect among members, as so often seen in the Terms of Service of near every MMO.

While I have always been concerned with this particular crudeness in the community, I never brought it up, because as a free player, my stake in the company attitude was essentially nil. However, as I type in my debit card info, I cannot help but resolve, that as a paying customer, I have a little more reason to suggest that: In no way, should Seatribe permit players' use of any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, or threatening language.

This is my initial thought on this topic, after just viewing this crossroad sign.

If I had to compromise, I would say, I could tolerate seeing this language anywhere except in institutionalized ways: i.e., naming of a building, object or structure, as shown above image. Similarly, I'd abhor to see such language used in the naming of villages, livestock, or player characters.

As you can suspect, I have a very difficult time understanding arguments that advocate using the above language.
So please, I invite you to discuss why Seatribe and this community should not, or should be held to this contemporary civil standard in Western gaming.


tl;dr: I want Seatribe to curb the use of naughty language (see bold text). Should they or shouldn't they become a little more strict?


Seatribe's current ToS: That thing you skipped over when paying for the game.
Last edited by Vaku on Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby sabinati » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:51 am

Really, you want them to spend time on censorship instead of game development? There are literally 2 (two) guys making this game. If you don't like it, destroy it! Murder the person who made it! Developers are not responsible for player behavior!
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby Clemence » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:52 am

To make in simple, they have mods in the forum to tone down a little those things, and its a full time job for several people.
I dont think the 2 devs will find the time to do this in game.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby BangPow » Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:57 am

It's a good idea, and well put. But I have to agree that Jorbtar doesn't have the time or means to babysit racial bigotry. For the most part, people just say or do these things for the shock factor. I appreciate your concern because it IS ridiculous, but I don't think there much that can be done about it.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby Vaku » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:01 am

Arguments as to whether or not there's sufficient time to monitor inappropriate behavior are fundamentally moot, considering most infractions can be automatically screened. It's the beauty of computer logic.

Further, arguments that 'accounting for bad behavior deviates from the game,' are weak, considering that the game includes all things which directly reflect the game experience: i.e., anything from an activity taking too long, a bug, or even a payment model—are all of these—reflective of the game experience, and are not, all of them, the game itself.

In essence, the game is a holistic experience, and as developers, they're taking that all into account. For instance, their upkeep of the website is not the game, but they upkeep it nonetheless as it directly contributes to the game experience.

Me, walking across the image I quoted, reading the icons I read, are all part of the game experience.

The language exists in the world and should be accounted for.
Last edited by Vaku on Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby czaper2 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:05 am

sabinati wrote:Really, you want them to spend time on censorship instead of game development? There are literally 2 (two) guys making this game. If you don't like it, destroy it! Murder the person who made it! Developers are not responsible for player behavior!


I'm not sure I agree with the very last line, about them not being responsible for it. The basic reason we were told we couldn't trade in-game items for actual money was: we didn't own the in game items, they are 100% owned by the developers.

So they probably own that sign, and ownership comes with responsibility. I don't know Swedish law, but unless there is some law regarding service providers being shielded from liability, it could be an issue. Food for thought I guess.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby deputi » Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:55 am

You can steal, destroy and murder in this game but people using offensive language is where you draw the line? An open-world sandbox game should stay true to its name and allow the player to do anything they desire.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby Orcling » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:03 am

czaper2 wrote:
sabinati wrote:Really, you want them to spend time on censorship instead of game development? There are literally 2 (two) guys making this game. If you don't like it, destroy it! Murder the person who made it! Developers are not responsible for player behavior!


I'm not sure I agree with the very last line, about them not being responsible for it. The basic reason we were told we couldn't trade in-game items for actual money was: we didn't own the in game items, they are 100% owned by the developers.

So they probably own that sign, and ownership comes with responsibility. I don't know Swedish law, but unless there is some law regarding service providers being shielded from liability, it could be an issue. Food for thought I guess.


Hate speech is illegal in Sweden, s'far as i know.
Call the police.
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby Arcanist » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:41 am

I agree, I don't want to see niggers when I play
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Re: Controversial Names / Naming

Postby sieffre » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:05 am

yeah the racism in this community is fuckin atrocious, and you can shrug it off as "oh it's just people lookin for a reaction" but it still stems from people actually bein, you know, racist. and it still does actual harm to real-life people

BangPow wrote:Jorbtar doesn't have the time or means to babysit racial bigotry

create a script that blocks any slurs from being entered into the typeboxes of trails and claims and the like. of course people will get creative to get around such things, but it's a start

deputi wrote:You can steal, destroy and murder in this game but people using offensive language is where you draw the line? An open-world sandbox game should stay true to its name and allow the player to do anything they desire.


"anything-goes" is fine while it's only affecting people's characters within the game. slurs have lastin real-life effects on the people to whom they are aimed at.
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