Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby Sevenless » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:09 pm

Garfy wrote:Tree quality is hilariously slow now as well, and heavily reliant on RNG. We've been planting tons of trees and it's not uncommon for them to lose quality compared to the trees we had before.

Same system as legacy for quality, bird told me trees growing that slow on 95% of forests is a bug. However, trees grow at a much more reasonable pace on the terrain they spawn while growing (wald specifically). I'm working off 10/41/48 for clay, 40/40/40 water (just about out of that :/), and 10/50/50 for soil. My bough trees are hovering in the 15/20/20 range, block bushes 20/30/30 ish. The bone quality fix is giving back some sorely missed wood improvement. Overall it's slow, but it's not feeling as achingly slow as it did at world start while bugs were being ironed out.

Beyond that, I dunno. I can see why people are pissy with the system, but if quality nodes get denser the further down you go and people *can* mine them it'll happen.
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby Garfy » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:45 pm

The system isn't the same now. It relies on 3 qualities per ingredient used for the entire tree planting process. This is 3 for clay, water, dirt and seeds. That's 12 qualities total, and if one of them is low, the final product suffers heavily for it (and thanks to all rounding being rounded down, it's even worse). On top of that, the formula for quality is different now and relies much more heavily on the tree seed. Meaning you have to slowly build up quality now, rather than starting at 10, then jumping to 30 or whatever like you would in legacy.

Still, tree quality brings much less to metal quality now than it use to. You can no longer use boards to make fuel, meaning a ql 20/20/20 tree will only bring about +2 quality to the finished metal bar compared to a ql 10/10/10 tree.
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby Vigilance » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:25 pm

Sevenless wrote:...bird told me...

You get different names for your informant every time.
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby Garfy » Sat Oct 10, 2015 10:58 pm

Also, just going to say, the quality system pickaxes use for determining what you can mine is retarded too. It's 3√(E*S*V).

This means even if you get lucky and find something like quality 40/40/10 ore and it makes you some quality 25/25/10 bars and that turns into a quality 20/20/10 pickaxe. You've still only got a quality 15 pickaxe for all intents and purposes. If you're lacking even one type of quality you're pretty much screwed because it's going to bring down the entire things effective quality by so much.

I just tested the difference between a 17/15/13 pickaxe and a 20/17/13 pickaxe. The difference is so hilariously small it wasn't even worth making. A wall I could mine where the hourglass increased in 1% increments is now a wall I can mine where the hourglass increases at 1.5% increments.

Doesn't help quality is rounded down either, so just one item of slightly less quality anywhere in the process and your final product now has 1 less quality. Don't even think of mixing ingredient qualities, you will always end up with an inferior product which takes the lowest qualities from each ingredient.

The only way to mine effectively now is make an alt, feed it nothing but Str food, then mine. Otherwise you end up with a gimped character that has 1000 str and 20 to all other stats.
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby jordancoles » Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:39 pm

I would like to have this system back as an option, not a requirement
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby Garfy » Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:29 pm

Just going to add this. I made a minehole to layer 3 today.

The softness there is slightly too hard for me. I have 134 Str and a QL 16 pickaxe. Mining this is going to require one of 3 things.
1. Get 30 more Str. This way I'll be just able to mine it but it's going to use over half a stamina bar to mine it once.
2. Get a QL 19-20 pickaxe. This'll also let me be able to mine it just.
3. Find better ore.

Getting more Str is going to require me to starve myself for a week, then chug down an absolute ton of sausages and variety food at the 300% bonus. Probably 80-90 bear bangers are required for this.
Getting a QL 19-20 pickaxe will require I either find better clay, dirt and water, or I wait a month or so to grow QL 30 trees (average) for fuel/boughs.
Getting better ore requires I prospect all over the place, and build a lot of mine holes, which are not cheap. Then I have to hope I find better ore.

This is a month or mores worth of dedicated effort, and the ore is likely to be more quality 10 trash ore. I dread to think what the jump from layer 3 to 4 is like.

My suggestion: If you wont make it easier to mine, at least let us see if the ore below us is worth mining or not. Since it's not guaranteed you'll find higher quality ore anymore, you waste way too many resources just looking. I think of the 9-10 or so veins I've found on layer 2, only 2 were higher quality than 10. One was silver, both are average of 11-13 quality, which is nothing and certainly not big enough to make the jump to layer 3.
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby smileyguy4you » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:49 pm

not sure if the wall breaking is the solution, but i will agree that our progress as a village has grinded to a snails pace because of difficulty mining anything worthwhile other than q10 metal and squeezing out quality up to about 15 using high q clay and slightly above q 10 coal (slow and very difficult tree increases). Everything else is pumping along but the only solution to progressing in quality/levels with mining is time at the moment and that time grind is pretty insane.
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Re: Ancient Mining

Postby fuinharlz » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:56 am

Sever wrote:
sabinati wrote:
Sever wrote:
Hey Cajoes, your image is NOT self-explanatory.

it is if you mined in slaem

1. This is not Salem.
2. Salem makes me want to commit sudoku.
3. Tell me about slaem it sounds interesting.

I like the idea in this thread, but op is a *.

Sudoku is a game, I think u were reffering to Seppuku!
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby mobtown » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:27 am

at the very least let us know the strength needed to mine a wall if we are unable to do so..something like you need 10 more strength to mine this wall. something like that would help alot
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Re: Ancient Mining (Spalling)

Postby pedorlee » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:38 pm

I suport this. Pls, actual str requirements are too high.
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