Sabotage and game mechanics

[pedorlee]

We all have read about the recent events @ cultists village and how Brodgar and friends were behind it.
I suffered myself the same shit last world, and I want to start a debate about it.

Game mechanics allow and flatter that anybody can introduce himself in other villages, open gates and summon people. It's the perfect strategy and the only thing required is a good role actuation and free time. IRL this can happen too, of course, but Real life mechanics allow you to do a ton of other things too.
In this game if you survive, or simply want revenge, you cant unless you do the exactly same.
There is no more effort related to this. Just go in, open the gate and the work of months goes directly to the bin.
Also, for this is required some veterany. A noob is learning and trying to survive, a comunity of noobs are trying to learn, build and succed advancing in the game, and eventually exploring other game possibilities, as griefing abandoned places, placing rams or stealing pants. Veterans know that the best way to get inside a place without effort is introducing a mole, and also veternas are probably people who spend a lot of time in the game, wich is not a constant in noobs.
¿ IS there any solution for this? ¿Can devs add any new mechanic to avoid it? ¿Can devs add any new mechanic to allow revenge outside the known parameters?

[ArvinJA]

Yet, most factions do not have a problem with this, why do you think that is?

[pedorlee]

I have an idea, of course it has big flaws, but it's something.

If an account has been on a Village (any of its chars), this info remains on a log that can be checked by the lawspeaker of a village. If that account has connected from the same Ip than other accounts, show that info too. Or at least some kind of info that this has happened and its related to other accounts. People with alts will have them on the same village, and alts in multiple villages can be the exeption, but at least we are getting more info.
IRL you get info from the poeple you met, if you allow them inside you allways have the chance to check that info before allowing them in. I mean, having info or the chance to acces to it is not the same as the actual "trust you hearth bro, he looks cool".
VPNs and shit is something just a few users choose and know about, and also this reduces significantly the chances to get one of those inside your village and it reduces a lot the amount of people who could possibily be involved, so its easier to know who is behind it out of them claiming its authoritship on the forum.

I just made this text in 5 min, and this is something complex that requires will and acceptation. I really want to hear better minds thinking about this.

EDIT:

Yet, most factions do not have a problem with this, why do you think that is?

Thats you saying this: ArvinJA from Odditown.

Citations are needed.

[ArvinJA]

That's pretty stupid, it would only raise the barrier to entry somewhat, it'd still be pretty easy for someone dedicated to do infiltrations, and most who pull them off do have that dedication already.

[pedorlee]

That's pretty stupid, it would only raise the barrier to entry somewhat, it'd still be pretty easy for someone dedicated to do infiltrations, and most who pull them off do have that dedication already.

Raising the barrier gives me more info. Reading the data its my duty and responsability. At least this is giving me an oportunity other than sistematically reject people or avoiding the use of Dwars and thieves.

[venatorvenator]

This only happens because there's no way to verify a character's identity. CR mechanics used to prevent this kind of backstabbing, but now every villager has gate keys, and the cost-effort of planting a fake char is lower than building and camping rams and assembling a raid party. A fake character can also open the gates at any time he wants, so the attackers really have the leverage in logistics and planning.

I'll bet two carrots that lying and backstabbing will be this world's main raiding method. It's pretty bad for socializing, it's like the game wants you to be a hermit and never interact with anyone else.

On the other hand, many of those risks could be minimized if you realized that villages can't follow the same layout they did in previous world because circumstances have change - a central walled are where everything is accessible once you're in is now bad design. The best layout would be a series of walled plots, unconnected, and separated by a minimap or so, with only a small communal area. It's safer, but, as before, it pretty much kills social interaction between villagers.

[ArvinJA]

EDIT:

Yet, most factions do not have a problem with this, why do you think that is?

Thats you saying this: ArvinJA from Odditown.

Citations are needed.

No, I mean, historically, most factions have not been infiltrated. There are probably more cases of a village member growing angry and betraying the village, than actual infiltrations. The answer as to why that is: Vetting. There's an inherent trade-off between recruiting new members and having a secure village, and that is mostly fine, recruiting someone or not should be a meaningful decision. Mass-recruitment should come with penalties.

[pedorlee]

This only happens because there's no way to verify a character's identity. CR mechanics used to prevent this kind of backstabbing, but now every villager has gate keys, and the cost-effort of planting a fake char is lower than building and camping rams and assembling a raid party. A fake character can also open the gates at any time he wants, so the attackers really have the leverage in logistics and planning.

I'll bet two carrots that lying and backstabbing will be this world's main raiding method. It's pretty bad for socializing, it's like the game wants you to be a hermit and never interact with anyone else.

On the other hand, many of those risks could be minimized if you realized that villages can't follow the same layout they did in previous world because circumstances have change - a central walled are where everything is accessible once you're in is now bad design. The best layout would be a series of walled plots, unconnected, and separated by a minimap or so, with only a small communal area. It's safer, but, as a before, it pretty much kills social interaction between villagers.

The idea is making the game more accesible to newcomers, the level system is brilliant and i love it but its something that requires even more time than in legacy, where it was all flat, and we have also the no-teleport policy, wich makes reunions harder.Making plots its more work and more hours a newbie is probably going to reject. The idea is to make grow the comunity, and I think making some logs accesible for the lawspeakers is something cool for a newbie. And something mandatory for an advanced user.
Real life people have families. You do not simply walk in the mafia in disguise just because you are a policeman. You do it because you are a policeman and the estate has taken some measures like hiding your ID, hide your family and many other measures.
I cant see why this cannot be ported here somehow.

ArvinJA: In my experience this hasnt been like that. Also we've recently seen a case like this.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

A real siege system would be the first thing to look at.
The gates opening from the inside is currently the only viable way of getting past a brick wall with actives.

A siege system might make city destruction more common, but it would also make random ganking less common as it's riskier.

Players would be more prepared for penetration as well, because people would be less inclined to go all or nothing with single communal plots.

Most major villages already run a hybrid system of personal property and communal property.

[Archiplex]

It should be very difficult to raze a city and destroy everything in it, but I don't think it should be impossible to enter a city and steal things.

What if all buildings had a quality, and the higher quality, the harder to destroy? With lower ones being easier and having less health

What if all doors had locks, but there was a way to lockpick and enter places you aren't allowed (With the locks relocking after some time, to add another risk), and lockpicking in itself took a long time?

What if all buildable objects had an ABSURD amount of health, where it would take a long time in order to destroy an oven?

I'm thinking implementations like this would be fine

Gatebuilding would be difficult you'd likely have to make multiple layers, perhaps a strongbox area where all of your -really- prized possessions were, which would take a long time to reach, and perhaps a thief would enter your village at night when he notices nobody is around, steal a few things let loose and on the outside layers of your village- and escape before being noticed.