Primitive Start

[Rebs]

Is it just me or is the early game not really Primitive?? Jumping from a leanto to a log house?? maybe implementing a in between house, like a mud/thatch hut? made from mud clay (soil a water), now i have mentioned it, be able to make planks so early... i just believe their should be more of a primitive start to the game, like mud clay buckets and hand axes.

Things i think should be be implemented.

Hand Axe - allows for branches and bough to be gathered, able to chop bushes but not trees (chopping trees my opinion should be mid game stuff)
mud clay - water and soil (using birch Kuksa)
mud bucket, plates, cups.
mud hut - made from branches, mud clay, thatch and string (maybe more storage then a leanto for early game maybe going as far as a 3x2 house)
early game farms, growing berries maybe even potatoes
1x1 2x2 mud/clay kilns
early game meals using nuts and fruit.
fire drills.


I just think that there are things in the early game that no one uses as people just jump straight to planks which like fur/leather shouldn't be early game. Baskets are never used and fruits and nuts and never eaten.

[Granger]

Hand Axe - allows for branches and bough to be gathered, able to chop bushes but not trees (chopping trees my opinion should be mid game stuff)

Ingredients: branch, stone

mud clay - water and soil (using birch Kuksa)
mud bucket, plates, cups.

I wonder how they would work, my guess is: badly, and not very long.

mud hut - made from branches, mud clay, thatch and string (maybe more storage then a leanto for early game maybe going as far as a 3x2 house)

Wait for the rain...

Bottom line: Why mud when there is clay, which is superior as building material in every aspect?

Verdict: Bad idea, sorry.

[ven]

Is it just me or is the early game not really Primitive?? Jumping from a leanto to a log house??

Yes the game's tech and skill progression is completely broken. I jumped from nettle pants to metal armor in 2 days, before my leather could even finish. A friend was able to kill a bear on day one. It wouldn't surprise me to see organized factions with brickwalls tomorrow. Intermediate tech states like tents and such have been suggested for months or years. Devs know, devs don't care.

[jorb]

Devs know, devs don't care.

...? Why wouldn't we care?

[ven]

What have you done to balance tech and skill progression so as to decelerate the game's speed? I might have missed something, but my impression is that the trend with the updates is to make everything more accessible faster and earlier.

[Kalacia]

I do see your point. its just down to the way the skills simulate technological advancement.

The stepgap of mud houses is a bit poor though, people would just skip it as it makes no sense.

Requiring a refinement period for Ore generation, at least IRON... start off with low level copper and then bronze about the same time leather is being used.

Requiring those metals to make a masticator for higher 'level' ores.


i think the point you need to hit to slow down technological progression is how skills are gained. But then we are going on a totally different tangent than your initial suggestion.

Look at eve for skill generation. Or have specific stat levels as a requirement for the skill. Such as 50 farming for gardening (as an example).

Either way, the problem you spotted it a good spot... but the solution, needs a bit more work.

[Granger]

have specific stat levels as a requirement for the skill. Such as 50 farming for gardening (as an example).

Either way, the problem you spotted it a good spot... but the solution, needs a bit more work.

This.

[ven]

^^yeah that's good. It could be experience-bound too, requiring certain rarer experiences for a skill to be buyable.

[Rebs]

This was just a suggestion, and i believe the skills balancing is the way to prevent people from jumping through, maybe something as simple as increasing the LP cost for more advanced techs.

The point I was trying to make is that the early game needs to be more primitive then it is, the idea of mud clay is that it was a primitive building material mud clay huts and abodes were the first form of living spaces apart from caves.
What I mean by a hand axe is a sharpen stone not a hatchet, it was used to cut saplings/branches, not big trees. therefore adding a bit more depth instead of instantly being able to chop trees.

[Kalacia]

What I mean by a hand axe is a sharpen stone not a hatchet, it was used to cut saplings/branches, not big trees. therefore adding a bit more depth instead of instantly being able to chop trees.

Ok so say we look into this more. We need to identify where the current system is lacking. Which you done quite well, tech progresses too quickly in one area, and too slow in another.. giving a bad representation of the way our technology has progressed.

The issue i can see is not stone tools... its how fast we can get to iron, or even low quality iron. We effectively skip out copper and bronze.

basic solution as i mentioned above, is to lock skill purchace to a stat level.

Expanding on this... Why would having skills locked to stats be an issue? It could still be rushed very easily. You would maybe push this back by a day or so.

full solution, mix skills AND item requirements together. Start with simple, surface metals... initially found like a curio. You study this to realise that there is copper in the world. You can then learn copper mining and find copper veins. The same is true for tin, but you would require a copper tool to extract the ore. Then once you have found both ores you can study these together to get the discovery for bronze. Then we look at iron, iron starts as poor quality, say pig iron... then you learn refinement, and get wrought iron, then you learn about a blast furnace (by messing about with bricks and other things) thats when you get steel.

This process should take weeks of realworld time. because each step requires the previous tech level to be acheived, items produced and then understood by the characters. This would be done by having curios for LP, but also for the discovery of new skills to buy.

how do you make a metal axe? well you study your axe and study a metal bar at the same time.

(this would not just be for metal, other things.. farming would be the next step. But im not opening that can of worms today)



Drawback of this is, it clashes with the existing discovery system. And would make the start of the game much more long winded.

Anyways. What i have put above is the kind of work i would like to see from an OP about a topic that is so fundemental to the games mechanics. Also, its a good read when other people give me nice ideas. <3