Tedium, a Feature

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Ysh » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:50 am

Granger wrote:
Ysh wrote:Fearing of death is rational for mortal men.

Why would you fear death?

Death is like the state before you existed: you didn't care, because we were not there.
So why should it be a bad thing, or even something to fear?

This is philosophic, and I think maybe not everyone is agreeing. I think that if you are to change a man, you must evaluating if the man is liking the changes not after he is changed, but before. If I were to pose a question to you: would you take a drug which can make you mentally retarded, but you will be always happy in this case? No matter what state you are in before the taking, you can always be happy, which I am assuming is a man's goal in life. Asking any man who takes the drug if he is pleased with taking it after it happens, and he will say that he is. I do not think, in my current state, that taking this drug is very good idea. I can already become happy with my own powers as I am now. And I do not give anything up to do it.

Death is a similar to this. After I am dead, I care not for death. I cannot care for anything in this case. But right now I do care. I have a good living, and enjoy my life. I would not want to lose this. I think it is fine to fear the loss of something which you value very much. Though, of course, I cannot let my fear stop my good living. Too much fear can be bad, but this is not the question.

I can elaborate if anything is lacking for clarity. Also I can answering any other questions for you. Thanks for the consideration.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Patchouli_Knowledge » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:07 am

It's less of fearing death itself but fearing the unknown. You do not know what is hidden behind the veils of death. If you know what is behind it, you would be less likely to fear it. The step into the unknown is mostly involuntary and is inevitable.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Sever » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:26 am

Onep wrote:I just want people to have an authentic agricultural experience, you know? You all fear immersion.

Remember how this is a game? Games are about the player. If they're not about the player, they're trying to be art.

Your character getting sick of the hearthling life is a statement about the rigor and strife of the medieval peasant.
Your character committing suicide is an allegory on the endless grind of both life and the virtual addictions we all suffer.

Get out and take your avant garde with you. I'm gonna go weave silk for two hours.
Because fuck yeah.

Also here's a philosogical conundrum since you're all talking about death; is it worse to believe in an afterlife and fear that there is only oblivion, or to believe there is no afterlife and fear divine retribution?
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby NOOBY93 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:40 am

synaris wrote:this would absolutely kill village life where everyone generally has one or two jobs. hell i know two guys who only ever do ONE thing. and enjoy the hell out of it.

this would also making landscaping large projects take EVEN MORE time. as if it wasnt horrible enough. now my character can kill himself from digging too much? then again i guess you could suicide a bunch of alts on a digging project, but jorbtar said they wanted to move in a direction where people had LESS alts, not more.

this would also kill hermitages unless they multi logged, not to mention, people will multi log to exploit the kin saving them from suicide feature.

im completly against this.

Exactly this. Almost everyone in my village only does 1 thing, so it is a burden to fair players - and botters can easily make a bot workaround.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Onep » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:06 pm

A lot of people are complaining about this system encouraging disposable alts. Perhaps, new characters should spawn with very high tedium. This would make them much more susceptible to the dangers of Tedium if they're rushed into the grind. I think would be a valuable solution.
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We call it simply, Russian soul.”

An idea to consider: Tedium, a Feature.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Amanda44 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:26 pm

Ysh wrote:
Death is a similar to this. After I am dead, I care not for death. I cannot care for anything in this case. But right now I do care. I have a good living, and enjoy my life. I would not want to lose this. I think it is fine to fear the loss of something which you value very much. Though, of course, I cannot let my fear stop my good living. Too much fear can be bad, but this is not the question.

I can elaborate if anything is lacking for clarity. Also I can answering any other questions for you. Thanks for the consideration.

I don't think not wanting to die and fearing death are quite the same thing though, I also enjoy my life and love being alive, I don't want to die but I am not in anyway afraid of it. Death is not something I really dwell on, I don't have any hang ups about what happens afterwards as I don't hold any beliefs on that type of thing, therefore I see nothing to fear.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby mietzi94 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:50 pm

Onep wrote:A lot of people are complaining about this system encouraging disposable alts. Perhaps, new characters should spawn with very high tedium. This would make them much more susceptible to the dangers of Tedium if they're rushed into the grind. I think would be a valuable solution.


It goes into the right direction i guess... Still i know some people who love to farm the whole day. They do nothing else then farming because they enjoy it most. So what exactly do you want to do about this?
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby DDDsDD999 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:23 pm

mietzi94 wrote:It goes into the right direction i guess... Still i know some people who love to farm the whole day. They do nothing else then farming because they enjoy it most. So what exactly do you want to do about this?

I think to counteract this female characters should have less tendency to collect tedium from baking, farming, and sewing, while male characters collect less tedium from mining, hunting, and smithing. This would take the happiness roles give to players into account for the tedium feature.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Ysh » Sat Mar 19, 2016 6:29 pm

Sever wrote:
Onep wrote:I just want people to have an authentic agricultural experience, you know? You all fear immersion.

Also here's a philosogical conundrum since you're all talking about death; is it worse to believe in an afterlife and fear that there is only oblivion, or to believe there is no afterlife and fear divine retribution?

I think this premise can be a bad one with these choice. I do not think there can be an afterlife. I do not fear divine retribution because there is no divinity for making retribution on me. Whether my lacking of fear only can be through some ignorance of actual reality is still to be determined, though.
Amanda44 wrote:
Ysh wrote:
Death is a similar to this. After I am dead, I care not for death. I cannot care for anything in this case. But right now I do care. I have a good living, and enjoy my life. I would not want to lose this. I think it is fine to fear the loss of something which you value very much. Though, of course, I cannot let my fear stop my good living. Too much fear can be bad, but this is not the question.

I can elaborate if anything is lacking for clarity. Also I can answering any other questions for you. Thanks for the consideration.

I don't think not wanting to die and fearing death are quite the same thing though, I also enjoy my life and love being alive, I don't want to die but I am not in anyway afraid of it. Death is not something I really dwell on, I don't have any hang ups about what happens afterwards as I don't hold any beliefs on that type of thing, therefore I see nothing to fear.

There is no fear in death; a dead man does not know of fear. It is also a wasting of time for fear death at the end of the life. All men will die. This is not scary. Nothing about the acting of death is scary. Except when this death is premature. I think that if you can have a coin flip: on heads you can die and and tails nothing can happen. You will be afraid of this flip because dying is something that is bad to you. But after the outcome of the flip, if it is heads, you are no longer afraid because you can accept this is the reality. The fear is not from death, but of the possibility for your reality to be changed with you dying.

Edit: With staying on forum topic with slightness. I think this mechanic is tedious for the players than it can be for the players' characters. Needed to do useless actions to remove a bar? This is what is tedium.
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Re: Tedium, a Feature

Postby Comodo » Sat Mar 19, 2016 7:38 pm

Onep wrote:The Tedium meter would tick down the more you do the same task over and over. And if you repeat the same task too much, you would risk serious injury and could possibly drive yourself to suicide. This would be great feature to stop people from using bots and alts, the two most heinous evils of Haven. To regain your Tedium you'd have to do a variety of tasks from across the spectrum.


boshaw wrote:Another shitty idea born from the desire to stop bots by making the game worse and failing to actually stop bots.

+1 hogman

First, this would kill role based villages, since now the farmers can't farm because they will suicide, and the miner can't mine either. Second, now we also have people mining on their mains and dieing to the first troll they come upon.
Granger wrote:While the idea is funny in the mechanic, a bot writer worth his salt will circumvent it with some lines of code, after that it'll only impact people who do not run the bot.


Third, like Granger said I don't see how this will stop bots, bots can circumvent this in a multitude of ways.
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