Stop Talking About The End Game (Critique)

[shubla]

Characters stats and abilities decaying might be quite cool. These da ys you can just statcap your char and farm with it for rest of the world

[LadyGoo]

Excuses, excuses.

Did not really want to point it out, but you have left me no room. Your proposal of making underground public roads is super-dumb. I have pointed out why is it so: it brings the danger to other regions, endangers the maintenance team, costs stupidly high, loses in comparison to ordinary road networks both in all terms. It is just POINTLESS. If the devs would want something to happen, they would make the means of reaching it worth the reward or the end goal. Otherwise no-one will do it.

1. That was just an example.

An example of something that is no way an ordinary village? We are talking about the end-game for everyone, not to my personal Dis.

2. Too hard to maintain? So, you want easy end-game content?

I want clever end-game content that is challenging and worth the risk. What you have proposed is stupid. See the previous points.

3. It's not like that someone fighting you someplace else.

Of course, suiciding yourself in a narrow space where anyone can cave in or one shot you is a fighting in your book. I should have seen that.

Don't bother answering, or do, whatever - I got your agenda here.

The fact that you are defending your poorly-thought proposal made me reply.

[shubla]

HnH playerbase is also too hostile for big public projects.
If somone wants to make very long road from center of the world to all edges. Somone will come and spend 8 hours stomping that road to dirt. (Or instead, makes a bot that stomps it to dirt)
Brodgar etc. All have been failures. Constantly being raided and everybody getting killed. Also many new people that start villages start recruiting on forums. Then some experienced player joins them with alt and comes to raid them.
This community is just too hostile for anything fun.

[LadyGoo]

HnH playerbase is also too hostile for big public projects.

Don't blame the playerbase. Anything that is griefable will be griefed. If we want pretty roads, devs should make unpaving them more pain in the ass. As in using seeds to grass it, like in legacy.

As for the villages getting destroyed for recruiting, it is the fault of the villages themselves. There are various ways to avoid getting raided via a minehole placed by a newcomer. Such as adjusting the rights of the villagers, making sure that the high quality anvils, meat-grinders, cauldrons have only trespassing rights, no vandalism permitted anywhere. Make sure your newcomer's personal claim on his plot does not cover the gates and etc. etc.

[Glorthan]

Casuals can never hope to reach the "end game" anyways.
At some point in the game, every world you start to feel that the time invested in the game yields less and less progression.
People in the village feels the same. They log on more and more rarely. Play less. Everyone starts to feel like this is a chore.
The fun part of this game is in the beginning. Exploring to find a sweet spot. Building. Finding seeds. Get the chars up and running to kill all animals 1v1.
Raise the quality of stuff, make equipment/weapons.
Once there are no or very few new things to discover this game loses its appeal to me.

I believe the stat caps are ok since it does not take so much to reach it and characters become expendable, making drama and wars more likely.

One solution to the boredom is making the world smaller, more competetive. Lower the stat cap even more. Make it easier to break into bases. Drop the brick wall.
Remove skill requierments for killing others. Make it default at start. Simplify the combat system. And let us realise this game is not PvP permadeath. As it stands now it is semi-permadeath.
Maybe just drop the perma thing all together and just make it full loot? You would go to war more readily then? You could still lose your base which would be bad.
My 3.50.

This would make me want to play for longer than just the first two weeks of a world/new village.

[shubla]

HnH playerbase is also too hostile for big public projects.

Don't blame the playerbase. Anything that is griefable will be griefed. If we want pretty roads, devs should make unpaving them more pain in the ass. As in using seeds to grass it, like in legacy.

As for the villages getting destroyed for recruiting, it is the fault of the villages themselves. There are various ways to avoid getting raided via a minehole placed by a newcomer. Such as adjusting the rights of the villagers, making sure that the high quality anvils, meat-grinders, cauldrons have only trespassing rights, no vandalism permitted anywhere. Make sure your newcomer's personal claim on his plot does not cover the gates and etc. etc.

Not all new players know that they should do all kinds of stuff like this.
Setting up V-idol and making micromanagement on rights is not that simple.

[Ysh]

HnH playerbase is also too hostile for big public projects.

Don't blame the playerbase. Anything that is griefable will be griefed. If we want pretty roads, devs should make unpaving them more pain in the ass. As in using seeds to grass it, like in legacy.

As for the villages getting destroyed for recruiting, it is the fault of the villages themselves. There are various ways to avoid getting raided via a minehole placed by a newcomer. Such as adjusting the rights of the villagers, making sure that the high quality anvils, meat-grinders, cauldrons have only trespassing rights, no vandalism permitted anywhere. Make sure your newcomer's personal claim on his plot does not cover the gates and etc. etc.

Not all new players know that they should do all kinds of stuff like this.
Setting up V-idol and making micromanagement on rights is not that simple.

Recruiting bad men is flaw of open recruitment.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

One solution to the boredom is making the world smaller, more competetive. Lower the stat cap even more. Make it easier to break into bases. Drop the brick wall.
Remove skill requierments for killing others. Make it default at start. Simplify the combat system. And let us realise this game is not PvP permadeath. As it stands now it is semi-permadeath.
Maybe just drop the perma thing all together and just make it full loot? You would go to war more readily then? You could still lose your base which would be bad.
My 3.50.

All of these suggestions tell me you want to be playing a different game. Permadeath needs to be amplified in its totality (like it was at the beginning of Hafen) and recovery nerfed.

I agree, sure, there shouldn't be a "victory" condition. But that's not what endgame means- there still needs to be events and things that a person who has everything can do that's not just watching a number go up every few days.

There should never be a place where someone has 'everything'. The world should seek to consistently take it away from you.

1. What about the rest of the world? The problem with the end-game for an average player still present. Do you expect the newbies to dig out tunnels 30-60 minimaps long and etc.? Better to build actual roads or not to build them at all.
2. It is a death trap that is hard to maintain. People can use the road networks to get to other people's minehole systems and destroy their mining supports, dig out their nodes, or camp their miners.
3. I do not think you realize, what a bad-bad-really-bad-bad-bad-really-really-bad-bad idea is to fight someone underground.

Excuses, excuses. 1. That was just an example. 2. Too hard to maintain? So, you want easy end-game content? 3. It's not like that someone fighting you someplace else.

I completely agree with Hasta on all points. Maintaining it is part of the 'ongoing game content' I was talking about. Want to prove you're powerful and have the where-with-all to do this? Then you need to prove you can maintain it. Overland roads are better? Fine... BUILD THEM. People are stomping your roads to dirt? That's a hazard, guess you need to keep those quarries running to put the road back and people who patrol them to find out when this has happened and maybe catch the person in the process of doing it.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

Does people to go into Haven and Hearth to play Maintenance Online? Monotonous and/or repetitive actions should be lowered and dynamic ones where something is different should be more of a staple.

Also I am wondering if these internal focus in development is ging to cause a lower amount of player interaction. Perhaps balance it out with some natural or global events as well.

[Hasta]

Does people to go into Haven and Hearth to play Maintenance Online? Monotonous and/or repetitive actions should be lowered and dynamic ones where something is different should be more of a staple.

Arrgh. Have to chew everything up these days. I wasn't talking about "what should be", per se, rather than "what is". Ofcourse having a balanced, dynamic, ever-challenging world, yet allowing for a variety of playstyles and activities - would be amazing (and in hopes for that I'm here, duh). It WOULD be and it SHOULD be. But saying that there is no possibility to entertain yourself with what is already implemented is wrong (i'm not gonna use the world "stupid" in the meaning of "wrong", which seems to be trending here).

I've made a simple example of a social, challenging and effort-consuming activity. It may require a few dedicated, active players. It may be somewhat tedious, flawed and less satisfying than all these rainbow castles and glorious challenges we all fantasize about in C&I. But it's there right now. Saying "no, it's too hard and stupid, I don't wanna" and keep complaining about the lack of content is, well... Wrong =)

I'm not denying the necessity of rainbow castles. I'm just saying that entertainment of a person in an online game always partly lays on that person's metaphorical shoulders. In H&H, in it's current state - even more so. But it's not impossible, as a passing-by reader may conclude from some posts here.