Realm Subversion

[LadyV]

Having read the comments in the announcements about contesting a kingdoms claims, I agree there need to be a way. My thought is to add a new criminal act, rebellion. Rebellion would deny your contribution to a realms authority. If you hold the lawspeaker role of a village you should be able to set your village idol to rebellion as well. This in turn actively drains a certain amount of authority from the realm. Border cairns can be contested so no changes there. Rebellion would leave either it's own scent or possibly vandalism since you intend harm tot he realm.

What does everyone think?

[TeckXKnight]

I like it but I feel like there's already basically no benefit for you to be within a kingdom's borders of you're not part of it so now you're just actively sticking your neck out for the sake of it. Trespassing gives the benefit of travel and access, theft gives items and bodies, vandalism let's you take the wealth of others and destroy it, murder sets back your opponents and protects you and your friends. Is the only benefit of rebellion to slight the guys who are bigger than you? I mean the answer can absolutely be "yes" but I just feel like it should do more.

[Kaios]

I like the thought of being able to actively drain a realm's authority as a form of rebellion if they have claimed over my village idol, I'm not really sure on how to balance that exactly but I do think it would be an interesting addition and something that is much needed in general.

[ekzarh]

Feels one-sided.

If you want to rebel - the game has to give a Realm owners the chance to react e.g. - like giving them notification, coordinates and maybe siege advantages.

[LadyV]

Alright points noted. What if individuals leave say a tresspassing scent when in rebellion and Villages leave a distinct rebellion scent. It would be easier to notice a whole village ignoring the crowns will. I don't think any special abilities should be given to the realm on combat. I mean you undertook this territory so you should have to patrol it to find dissent. There may be an argument for allowing no murder or vandal scents vs. a village in rebellion simply because you are the existing authority and it is your law your defending but that would be it.

What other things did some of you have in mind?

[Fierce_Deity]

Some sort of rebellion mechanic would be fine. This would work well with your policy idea. If you are claimed over by a kingdom that gives no benefits you would be more likely to rebel.

[ekzarh]

Alright points noted. What if individuals leave say a tresspassing scent when in rebellion and Villages leave a distinct rebellion scent. It would be easier to notice a whole village ignoring the crowns will. I don't think any special abilities should be given to the realm on combat. I mean you undertook this territory so you should have to patrol it to find dissent. There may be an argument for allowing no murder or vandal scents vs. a village in rebellion simply because you are the existing authority and it is your law your defending but that would be it.

What other things did some of you have in mind?

Like I said - it is kinda unbalanced to the side of rebel.
It costs nothing for rebels to rebel, while it costs a lot (auth drain + need to manually patrol) for existing authority.
The least fair thing to do is to provide a mechanic similar to cairn challenge - clear arrow marker pointing to rebelling village, time frames to rebel/unrebel, giving all village members an Outlaw buff while rebellion is ongoing.

There is also no end result in your concept. Normally rebellion either succeeds (cairn is destroyed, new realm may be established), or fails (rebels surrender, no rebellion can be started for 2-4 weeks).

[Pickard]

Having read the comments in the announcements about contesting a kingdoms claims, I agree there need to be a way. My thought is to add a new criminal act, rebellion. Rebellion would deny your contribution to a realms authority. If you hold the lawspeaker role of a village you should be able to set your village idol to rebellion as well. This in turn actively drains a certain amount of authority from the realm. Border cairns can be contested so no changes there. Rebellion would leave either it's own scent or possibly vandalism since you intend harm tot he realm.

What does everyone think?

Its very abusable.
Build plcaim + vclaim + pali + alt (to destroy siege engines). It takes 1-2 hours to build, and after everything dried start rebellion. To destroy it, realm owners should find where it is, set siege, spend a lot of time and manpower.
Big village can easily build dozen per weekend.
Its actually a perfect bait, cheap as dirt and cannot be ignored. And no way to know who did this.

[ekzarh]

Its very abusable.
Build plcaim + vclaim + pali + alt (to destroy siege engines). It takes 1-2 hours to build, and after everything dried start rebellion. To destroy it, realm owners should find where it is, set siege, spend a lot of time and manpower.
Big village can easily build dozen per weekend.
Its actually a perfect bait, cheap as dirt and cannot be ignored. And no way to know who did this.

That's why some additional pre-requisites must exist:
a) Village older than X days (7-14)
b) Number of village members over Y (4-8
c) Lots of authority (75% of max authority or more + additional drain per hour)
d) Limit to how many active rebellions Realm can have simultaneously (due to abuse possibility this limit should go together with big drawbacks to Realm from Rebellion. By this I mean that stopping the rebellion by any of the ways - raze village, give it independence, make it surrender should be better that leaving rebellion as it is

[Pickard]

That's why some additional pre-requisites must exist:
a) Village older than X days (7-14)

Will not work. After village built it can wait forever.

b) Number of village members over Y (4-8

Will not work. Alts.

c) Lots of authority (75% of max authority or more + additional drain per hour)

Not sure. I can buff to full in one day, than go buff next. Drain may work, but big villages generate tons of auth and characters may be oathed easily to the riot village.

d) Limit to how many active rebellions Realm can have simultaneously (due to abuse possibility this limit should go together with big drawbacks to Realm from Rebellion. By this I mean that stopping the rebellion by any of the ways - raze village, give it independence, make it surrender should be better that leaving rebellion as it is

And this limit will be always full with troll rebels.
Maybe rebels should build own realm claim to start rebellion, and activate it in case of success? But what process should lead to success or fail? I doubt it should be village raid and direct realm claim destruction.
Another precondition may be activating village before realm, so only captured villages may rebel.