Realms Critique 3

[LadyGoo]

Destroying the coronation stone of a Realm no longer dissolves that Realm, but rather "only" reduces its authority to half, and prevents the Realm from earning further authority. The Realm retains its members, and any member with territory management permissions may construct a new coronation stone somewhere within the Realm's territory.

I think this will backfire in the next world, or even in this one. Right now this makes it far more profitable to have 0 kingdom buffs and extend over all the villages you see. If your coronation stone will be destroyed, your authority drain will be minor if you won't have any kingdom buff. So, instead of proper kingdoms, the game will end up having factions rushing their kingdoms, claiming as much land as they can + setting no bonuses + having dual kingdoms (1 for having 0 buffs and getting exp). With the challenge cost being so high, it will make other late-coming kingdoms struggle with making their own. Mind that the coronation stone cost is not that high at all. Therefore, the kingdoms that managed to spread out will be basically unkillable.
In short, it should be more profitable to have a proper kingdom, that would require proper management, creating central community hubs. The problem with that is that the people are less likely to move to the new location if they have settled already. Meanwhile, brand-new players cannot defend themselves properly from pvp kids, that won't even bother to develop their own kingdom.

If you would like to keep it that way, every next coronation stone should cost 3-4x of the base cost. So, kingdoms would actually be killable in some way, so that the old owners won't have enough time to gather enough mats.


Kingdom-management suggestions:
- it would be useful to be able to hide the authority bar. Spies might tell the enemy the authority inside of the realm, and detect whether it is being extended right now. So the enemies would be able to find the fresh cheirns and break them with that information on hand.
- being able to choose who is see the kingdom chat and not (ability to ban the person, basically, without exile).


Things noobs were asking for in conferences and private chats:
- I am being constantly asked when we will make bonuses for carpentry, smith, dexterity and psy by the people who do not know about how the system works. Think, there should be some more kingdom statues implemented that would require materials that can be produced/found by the noobs (enhancing trades). For instance, steel, glue, gold, dried/wet hides, more silk usage and etc.
- Travel weariness cost reduction statue/buff, so people would be able to travel to the market and other areas with lower charisma*exp. Or/also make an extremely expensive structure that would require no travel weariness to port to (without visiting as well). That would help to the markets and kingdom's community centers. + they could be used as spawn points as well (optional turn on/off).

[Kaios]

I think this will backfire in the next world, or even in this one. Right now this makes it far more profitable to have 0 kingdom buffs and extend over all the villages you see. If your coronation stone will be destroyed, your authority drain will be minor if you won't have any kingdom buff. So, instead of proper kingdoms, the game will end up having factions rushing their kingdoms, claiming as much land as they can + setting no bonuses + having dual kingdoms (1 for having 0 buffs and getting exp). With the challenge cost being so high, it will make other late-coming kingdoms struggle with making their own. Mind that the coronation stone cost is not that high at all. Therefore, the kingdoms that managed to spread out will be basically unkillable.

If they ever fix multi shield protection only then will you have any reason to complain about something being difficult to destroy.

Want to know what else incentivizes Kingdom's to not build any buffs? When another kingdom has 3x or 4x their own buffs and players are more interested in that one instead. Might as well just say fuck it and claim as much territory as you can and not worry about building any at all an just gaining the exp instead. No point in a Kingdom struggling to maintain a small amount of buffs when someone else has already provided a significantly larger amount elsewhere.

Like I said before, direct bonuses to stats are really lame I'd rather see production speed buffs, stamina drain decrease, LP gain, increase of animal quality spawn, etc. instead of just generic and boring stat raises.

Something is wrong with the mechanics if it's easier for you to just go out and destroy the coronation stone than it is to fight for areas and clear out cairns. Two hours to take down a cairn is a little iffy in my view as well, some nerds can easily keep track of log in times and do this during the Kingdom's down time.

[LadyGoo]

Want to know what else incentivizes Kingdom's to not build any buffs? When another kingdom has 3x or 4x their own buffs and players are more interested in that one instead

Why do you think you should be equal to a kingdom ran by a large faction or a village that trades a lot and got trade connections, like Zebratul's? Why do you think you should be on equal terms with people that do a lot, while you're doing nothing?
Want people to move in? Give them crossroads, organise a market, community place, give them industry, noob spawning hub. You've done none of this, keep claiming lands and complaining over how the people that have put so much more effort into their kingdom is overpowered.

If they ever fix multi-shield protection only then will you have any reason to complain about something being difficult to destroy.

The coronation stone cost is too low. People can just spam-make several ones, and keep some res for the future if their place would ever be raided. Consequently, a kingdom that belongs to some raiders that won't do any buffs will be unkillable. Not to mention that people tend to build them on islands. Maybe, the island-vaults should also be addressed?

You do not understand, that the stat buffs are meant to let the new players to catch-up. Hunt earlier, get higher quality stuff earlier, be able to produce higher quality food and curios earlier, being able to present tradable goods earlier than non-buffed player would do during the late-game stage.

[Glorthan]

Like I said before, direct bonuses to stats are really lame I'd rather see production speed buffs, stamina drain decrease, LP gain, increase of animal quality spawn, etc. instead of just generic and boring stat raises.

This actually sounds awesome.

[Kaios]

Why do you think you should be equal to a kingdom ran by a large faction or a village that trades a lot and got trade connections, like Zebratul's? Why do you think you should be on equal terms with people that do a lot, while you're doing nothing?
Want people to move in? Give them crossroads, organise a market, community place, give them industry, noob spawning hub. You've done none of this, keep claiming lands and complaining over how the people that have put so much more effort into their kingdom is overpowered.

Aren't you the same person that stated something along the lines of "botting the production tasks leaves more time for the global activities" so unfortunately since I don't have an entire industry based around bots it leaves very little time for other activities. It's clear the botting has gotten so bad that you have no idea the amount of effort many players put towards this game and especially those people working full time jobs and still putting in as much time as they can to this game.

I had mentioned it before already but ONCE AGAIN the spawn time on foul notes is very fast so I doubt you really traded for as many as you claim or that it was as hard as you make it out to be, I have first-hand experience in this regard and zebratul never disputed this when I mentioned it before so why is it you are trying to claim it took more effort than it really did?

If the devs think you're working hard instead of just botting then I'm sure they'll make the right call, but so far updates prove otherwise.

[Ysh]

Why do you think you should be equal to a kingdom ran by a large faction or a village that trades a lot and got trade connections, like Zebratul's? Why do you think you should be on equal terms with people that do a lot, while you're doing nothing?
Want people to move in? Give them crossroads, organise a market, community place, give them industry, noob spawning hub. You've done none of this, keep claiming lands and complaining over how the people that have put so much more effort into their kingdom is overpowered.

You miss points. As game stand right now, most efficient/beneficial for player base right now is for single kingdom to exist. All player put in effort in increase effect of the single kingdom and all player is profit the most. So all player will flock to largest kingdom by virtue of it being largest. This is not good for promote conflict. Why anyone will want to compete instead of join up? Game must have some conflict. It is important for usurper to have some advantage over incumbent.

[LadyGoo]

Zebrtul doesn't bot, yet he's got better kingdom buffs than you do.
You're better spending time on actually trading for the resources, than claiming all the noobs you can see and reach: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=51700
Moreover, you've admitted yourself that you are botting the food for the cows + mining. If you think that we've fully automized everything that we'd press 1 button and our characters would automatically produce everything, you're completely wrong.

I had mentioned it before already but ONCE AGAIN the spawn time on foul notes is very fast so I doubt you really traded for as many as you claim or that it was as hard as you make it out to be, I have first-hand experience in this regard and zebratul never disputed this when I mentioned it before so why is it you are trying to claim it took more effort than it really did?

Kaios, you do not trade and got no idea about the income. Consequently, you're speculating and fitting everything according to your own world picture: as in we bot literally everything, our market gives almost no materials for the statues and etc. Meanwhile, the truth is that 95% of all the mats come from trading, setting connections with the people that live in outer grids and can explore untouched lands.

If the devs think you're working hard instead of just botting then I'm sure they'll make the right call, but so far updates prove otherwise.

Not sure what they're proving to you, really. Are you trying to brag that they've listened to you? Ho, just like burg when he was saying "So good that the devs got the inner party and won't listen to players like you".
It's up to them whether to act upon something or not. My task is to provide reports and feedbacks regularly. As long as what they're doing corresponds with how I feel the game should be, I am completely happy with the development.

@Ysh, players do not leave their settlements for the new kingdom, unless they've just started. So far, people preferred to sell the materials to me, rather than donate. It is not like everyone is putting effort into our kingdom in purpose. But we've got a nice small community of enthusiasts that do some things. But that is not because we're the largest kingdom, but how we connect with them.
Some people want their kingdoms and they make them. It's not like they're going to be ripped apart for doing so, as long as they contact other kingdoms and make sure they're not causing too much of discomfort. Conflicts will always be and never will be gone. That happens naturally regardless whether a kingdom gives the bonuses or not. Bonuses are a way to make new players accelerate their advancement + make it unfeasible to raid them by the landlords.

[ven]

Laws that grant kingdom-wide buffs and penalties like LP% or crop grow speed, like the old belief bars. Or a free cape with the kingdom's sigil for every citizen, to give us a less abstract metagame-y token of being part of a kingdom. Or a mouseover tag on items saying "Sword crafted in the Kingdom XYZ". Stuff like that, that would allow us to customize our kingdoms, encourage migration dynamics, make it all feel less like a village claim 2.0.

There were so many people that recognize that we need higher level social structure and territorial exspansion. It has the potential of an autonomous interest and concent generating system. Kingdoms would have their own national currency, trade centers, roads, laws, courts and regulations and etc.

There are lots of great things that could be done with Kingdoms with respect to even some of the discussions just above this post about infrastructure and the like but all it seems to be currently is a glorified village claim.

We need some way to customize kingdoms. Targeted stats instead of the broad bonuses we have at the moment would be nice, but that's still just numbers. Is "more numbers" all that a kingdom can offer as a game mechanic when compared to a village claim?

Seriously, kingdoms are a complicated political system, they need to be open to customization. What if a certain kingdom wants to encourage farming for some weeks? Or if it wants to improve crafting, and pushes a law that allows every citizen to craft a unique item for a month? Or if it wants to let everyone build structures faster, chop trees faster, receive more meat when butchering, and so on? Or increase LP gain at the expense of lower EXP income? There's so much potential to this mechanic, but it's being used as just another claim.

[Kaios]

Zebrtul doesn't bot, yet he's got better kingdom buffs than you do.
You're better spending time on actually trading for the resources, than claiming all the noobs you can see and reach: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=51700

That has nothing to do with this and I'd like you to guess how many of the people you've claimed over likely have a cave organ, it's probably like 1% and you may not even be trading with people you've claimed.

Moreover, you've admitted yourself that you are botting the food for the cows + mining.

Wrong world, that was last world I said that and I never mentioned mining at all. Only using a simple script for beets that drank water plus put to trough.

If you think that we've fully automized everything that we'd press 1 button and our characters would automatically produce everything, you're completely wrong.

Probably not quite to that extent but I'm sure it's close. Better go see if the mammoth checking bots have spotted anything then get back to me regarding this matter.

Kaios, you do not trade and got no idea about the income. Consequently, you're speculating and fitting everything according to your own world picture: as in we bot literally everything, our market gives almost no materials for the statues and etc. Meanwhile, the truth is that 95% of all the mats come from trading, setting connections with the people that live in outer grids and can explore untouched lands.

Speculating on my activities while accusing me of speculation, nice one. Also admitting to trading with people who you probably don't have claimed and then telling me to setup connections with people I've claimed, another nice one.

Not sure what they're proving to you, really. Are you trying to brag that they've listened to you? Ho, just like burg when he was saying "So good that the devs got the inner party and won't listen to players like you".
It's up to them whether to act upon something or not. My task is to provide reports and feedbacks regularly. As long as what they're doing corresponds with how I feel the game should be, I am completely happy with the development.

Not bragging about anything, just stating the facts. Your reports are based around accomplishments and activities started and completed through botting whereas mine and others like myself are more useful in that regard because I'm reporting on what the actual effort to do those things is comprised of.

[Ysh]

@Ysh, players do not leave their settlements for the new kingdom, unless they've just started. So far, people preferred to sell the materials to me, rather than donate. It is not like everyone is putting effort into our kingdom in purpose. But we've got a nice small community of enthusiasts that do some things. But that is not because we're the largest kingdom, but how we connect with them.
Some people want their kingdoms and they make them. It's not like they're going to be ripped apart for doing so, as long as they contact other kingdoms and make sure they're not causing too much of discomfort. Conflicts will always be and never will be gone. That happens naturally regardless whether a kingdom gives the bonuses or not. Bonuses are a way to make new players accelerate their advancement + make it unfeasible to raid them by the landlords.

I do not necessarily just talk in current context. You start this thread under pretense of objective feedback of kingdom systems, yes? Act like this objective and not as if my word is attack on your in particular. I think it is some thing like these:

• Goal is for world to be persistent (no reset)
• Player conflict is primary source of repeatable/endgame content
• Kingdom system is design to be primary driver of player conflict

As I say right now, it is most efficient in this current system for all player to create single superkingdom and all share in benefit. If all player in game can produce X authority, and you must have Y upkeep to maintain bonus statue, then it is better to have one giant kingdom giving X/Y bonus instead of two equal kingdom giving (X/2)/Y bonus to its member. In practice, this 100% capture will not happen of course because people do not act rationally in this way. But this is the ideal state of the current system. The system will trend toward this ideal state over time. If the system is design to promote conflict, and the only way conflict will be promoted is if player does act irrationally, this is not a good system for promote conflict. Right now there is all advantage and disadvantage to be in kingdom. Why a player will try to compete? There must be some incentive to try to take some piece of this pie, some advantage of not working together.

Furthermore, how a player can compete? If larger kingdom has larger bonus and more men, how is some smaller group going to take their land? They are more numerous and more powerful as individuals.

I think kingdom system must have setup where, for 100km x 100km plot of lands, it is more efficient for multiple kingdom to control this land than single giant kingdom for systems to promote goal of conflict.