Combat Feedback 1.0

[LadyGoo]

Our alliance has been meditating on the new combat system feedback, and here is what we've come up with:

The current PvP system encourages people to use the "battle axe of 12th bay" in a close combat at the moment. Shieldmen cannot compete with b12 berserkers due to the damage difference, oak stance and combat meditation maneuvres. Before the last update, we could see some spearmen as well, that would fight using only spears in close and distanced combat. I think, the game should encourage different tactics and strategies for team fights, depending not only on enemy's deck but on the gear/weapon as well. The legacy combat was so fun due to diversity it was providing: you had to use almost all skills available in the game to be good. That is something good to be brought back.

Emphasize different warrior weapon, deck types.
Advanced fighters use b12's only since the combat meditation allows them to put down their opponent very fast. The attack weight speed boost can allow people to do opportunity knocks 1-2 times, then follow up with a finishing blow of cleave in 1vs1 fights. Imagine, what happens in group fights, when 2 of your opponents can cast opp knocks on you at the same time and hit you immediately. For defensive purposes, oak stance is enough to replace the shield-up maneuver. So, a shieldman is disadvantaged and outdated, in comparison to b12 holders. Before the combat update, every team would have 1 b12 fighter to do a final strike, after his shieldmens would take of defense from the focused person. That was adding up some variability to the combat, knowing who to be scared of, how to position yourself and etc.

Rock-paper-scissors principle:
Rock - b12 berserkers. Good vs shieldman, but suffers from archers/spearmen.
Paper - archers/spearmen. Good vs b12 berserkers, but suffer from shieldmen that can get into a close distance with them.
Scissors - shieldmen. Good vs archers, but suffer from b12 berserkers.


Shieldmen
To achieve that, a good start would be making the shields block the arrow damage for 30% for equal opponents. Therefore, archers won't be able to deal that much damage to shieldmen, that will decrease the distance between them and the archer, making them useless. The formula has been worked out by leanne 69 (lolo): 30%*((agi*MC)/(per*MMS)).
So, we'll avoid the situation where rage alts would be used as shieldmen to counter the archers who have invested time into their stats. Archers cannot be some alts as well. If you would have 3.33*more agi/mc, you could block the damage 100%.
It is also good for late/mid/early game in terms of balance. That way MC would matter a lot for the shieldmen as well, while b12s would focus on UA. Nowadays, may people are focusing on having more ua than mc.

Spearmen
Spears should be returned back with some less invasive fixes (halving the damage and significantly lowering the speed just nerfed them completely). Spearmen started emerging before the update, but now they're not really feasible. It was quite cool that you could actually use the spear in close and distanced combat. I'd suggest upgrading rolling back the changes done to them if the shields could actually block the arrow damage.
Reduce the cost for the sting attack from 3 to 1 coins as well to make it useful again.

To prevent people changing their weapons in battle: changing weapons should give you a massive cooldown (5 secs) to remove your weapon from your hand slots (so if you'd be ganked while having a saw and stone axe on your hands, you could quickly switch to your weapon). There should be an animation and unability to use moves while switching weapons in combat.This is important so that an archer that is being charged by a shieldman wouldn't switch to b12. Same for others, b12 changing to a shieldman instantly and etc.
To enhance maneuvers changes: the cooldown for maneuvers changes should be removed. The CD is so high right now, that you cannot really change them without getting significantly disadvantaged. So you have to keep 1 maneuver during the whole fighting window. Changing maneuvres prevents you from putting defensive moves on sooner, so you might end up with 100% opening and get killed.
Nerfing combat meditation/bloodlust: the combat meditation/bloodlust maneuvers both should decay over time, like in legacy. If your enemy stacks their meter up and runs after you, or you chase him, you can kill/get killed instantly.


Discussion participants: Lolo, Ozzy, Kenpachi, Maslov

[ChildhoodObesity]

hey this is some GOOd feedback googirl im a big fan of ur rock paper scissor idea ;D doesnt seem like enough incentive to use b12 tho, archers would shit on them real hard and we would prob just see people ganking with a mix of archers and shieldmen only with barely any b12ers too much risk

[shubla]

And then theres troll that beats rock, paper and scissors by throwing shitton of caveins at them.
Nerf trolls please.

[ChildhoodObesity]

i think they should add more stuff that's hard af to kill. or something thats near impossible to kill but offers something extremely rare so its worth the risk. id like more challenge tbh

[dafels]

we need to be able to use all moves rather than a set of 10 moves I agree with that and more weapons that come with special moves that can only be used by the weapon would be cool.

The cooldown on gear switching should be much higher than just 5 seconds, so it would make scenarios like switching between a archer or a b12/shieldman in the same battle impossible. You shouldn't be able to swtich gear in a battle at all. Even with the cooldown there is going to be gay switching between weapons in the battle. It should come down to what role you choose to be before you head to the fight. Perhaps you should be able to only carry 1 weapon on your character, let it be in inventory or in hands. That is only one of the hard fixes I can come up to right now.

Make the advantage the aimbotters have over people that don't have aimbot in their client irrelevant then we could talk bringing back archery to somewhat decent level, it is a fuckin shame to what the combat has turned down to what it is right now compared to what it was in legacy - in a fuckin aimbot and script fest.

[stickman]

your rock paper scissors do nothing for the situations in your opening remarks... it makes it worse... would I rather be against 2 combat med people with b12s... or would I rather be a shieldman up against 2 people with b12s. your dead either way.

also when I was sparing with identically stated opponent combat med is not that good anymore, I took it off my bar infact despite using it 100% before the change. and 2 vs 1 you would be running away anyway so their combat med should not be charged.

now if your caught out foraging your dead if you didn't bring the correct gear... worse you cannot change gear for 5 seconds... did you equip your butching axe to cut off a bearhide? sorry your dead now because your going to get owned before you can even switch back.

also unless they put effective caps on the perception damage bonus for spears/arrows I don't think its a good idea to reverse the changes they made. otherwise in your example someone carrying a b12 will be 1 hit again.

this change would only be useful for large DIS vs AD type combat... what about hermits who make up 90% of the playerbase? its not a good change for them, they will never be involved in groupfights. which is why I think 1 on 1 combat should be what is balanced not group combat.

[Ozzy123]

this change would only be useful for large DIS vs AD type combat... what about hermits who make up 90% of the playerbase? its not a good change for them, they will never be involved in groupfights. which is why I think 1 on 1 combat should be what is balanced not group combat.

these hermits dont fight at all, and both group and 1v1 should be balanced

[jorb]

Thanks a lot for this. Will look at it.

[jordancoles]

Yea, would be cool

Sucks that spear throws can be automated for accuracy though, feels sorta lame to be double tapped for a few hundred damage or whatever

[Potjeh]

Perception's effect on damage should be capped between like 0.75x and 1.5x.