Hafen's Development: alternative vision

[strpk0]

+1, I think haven would greatly benefit from more automation. Nobody wants to do the same repetitive shit every day that quite frankly doesn't add at all to their overall experience.
There are better ways to spend your daily 4 hours of free time (even in-game).

Make things like farming massive fields for big herds of cattle something that costs your character's time only, as in having to leave your character there for hours while it does the work, not something that forces you to waste your real-life time and attention in order to stay competitive and also enjoy the other aspects of the game.

[KatoKhan]

Well I am trending to be the Devil's advocate here, and I really do understand what y'all are saying but I totally disagree.

The thought process that seems to dominate games currently is I have to do everything, I have to do it all myself, I have to be the best at everything,
I want everything the game has to offer, but I do not want to work for any of it. I only want to do the stuff that I like because that is fun and not work, but I want the rewards that
stuff I dont like gives.

IMO this is a bad road to lead down, and automation is a bad bad bad idea. In fact there should be more things to do so that nobody can do everything.
You should not be the best miner, the best farmer, the best hunter all at the same time. Think of how much more social you would have to be if there
was so much to do that it was nigh impossible to do it all yourself.

You might NEED more than one person for a village. You might actually find a use for that carebear that only wants to farm all day. Villages and Kingdoms
would actually become hotspots where people worked together and shared the fruits of their labor and solo hermits could have a reason to travel and trade.

The possibilities are endless. Just because you personally dont like one aspect of the game does not mean it needs to be removed or automated. Just make it
an incentive for someone else to do it for you.

Make things like farming massive fields for big herds of cattle something that costs your character's time only, as in having to leave your character there for hours while it does the work, not something that forces you to waste your real-life time and attention in order to stay competitive and also enjoy the other aspects of the game.

This would be a compromise I could live with. It is automated, sure, but it still requires you character to actually do the deed. I would only want a small downside for doing it like maybe no gains when doing things automated, or a 25% reduction in any RNG roll or something. And have some sort of mechanic that either does not allow this to be done while AFK, or alt tabbed to another character, OR takes twice the amoutn of time if done so.

[strpk0]

Well I am trending to be the Devil's advocate here, and I really do understand what y'all are saying but I totally disagree.

The thought process that seems to dominate games currently is I have to do everything, I have to do it all myself, I have to be the best at everything,
I want everything the game has to offer, but I do not want to work for any of it. I only want to do the stuff that I like because that is fun and not work, but I want the rewards that
stuff I dont like gives.

IMO this is a bad road to lead down, and automation is a bad bad bad idea. In fact there should be more things to do so that nobody can do everything.
You should not be the best miner, the best farmer, the best hunter all at the same time. Think of how much more social you would have to be if there
was so much to do that it was nigh impossible to do it all yourself.

You might NEED more than one person for a village. You might actually find a use for that carebear that only wants to farm all day. Villages and Kingdoms
would actually become hotspots where people worked together and shared the fruits of their labor and solo hermits could have a reason to travel and trade.

The possibilities are endless. Just because you personally dont like one aspect of the game does not mean it needs to be removed or automated. Just make it
an incentive for someone else to do it for you.

Except nobody really wants to (or can) right click on crops and select "harvest" for up to 4 hours every day, without failure. Not even the most hardcore farmers I know.
Sure, let the carebears do the farming, but atleast make their existence a bit more meaningful than that. By adding more automation.

Bots are a given in any game, no amount of human effort can prevent them. The good thing about adding automation is that quite simply now everybody has access to it, instead of the few java developers that run bot clients.

[jordancoles]

In fact there should be more things to do so that nobody can do everything.
You should not be the best miner, the best farmer, the best hunter all at the same time. Think of how much more social you would have to be if there
was so much to do that it was nigh impossible to do it all yourself.

Bots and alts, bro

Dividing the work load around skilled craftsmen only makes the alts and the bots more prevalent

[KatoKhan]

Ya I understand that, I just do not agree with the mentality behind it.

As Jorb stated earlier his vision was a much more social game and the more people automate, Bot and do everything themselves the less social the game gets.

[strpk0]

Ya I understand that, I just do not agree with the mentality behind it.

As Jorb stated earlier his vision was a much more social game and the more people automate, Bot and do everything themselves the less social the game gets.

Not really lol. How do you want people to socialize when they have to constantly drone away in order to keep their villages running?
Automation allows people to cut the amount of time they have to spend doing chores, and allowing them to partake in fun projects like doing brick art paving, building markets, etc.

[LadyGoo]

Tedious and routine kills all the social activity and etc. If you are using an argument that if you can do everything by yourself, so you do not need others, you're so damn wrong
It is the same as saying "I have got everything, I can support myself financially. I do not need anyone in my life". People will recruit, get more people in regardless just to socialise and have fun, not because they want some other slave. In fact, the routine encourages less meaningful recruitment and treating people like labour donkeys, rather than another entity that could bring new ideas and serve as an additional warrior force and etc.

Hafen should be more about clever decisions, tactics, politics, trades, interactivity, exploration rather than "whoever outfarms whom".

[jordancoles]

And cows eat too damn much

[wolf1000wolf]

The reason why farming becomes such a chore is due to the sheer AMOUNT of it that needs to be done.

What if we had another "Quality" or mechanic somewhere in the farming/food chain that INCREASES the amount of the final product?

Instead of scaling food production via larger and larger operations, higher quality crops/processes can thus feed more?
Better tools/stations that give more milk/cow... give more wheat/tile of barley?

Might be a numbers game though. =/

(Yes, I am aware higher quality foods already give more FEPS. However, the amount doesn't seem to be enough, or why do ppl need such large farms?)

[jordancoles]

The reason why farming becomes such a chore is due to the sheer AMOUNT of it that needs to be done.

22 milking cows = at least 4 feeding troughs to stay fed for a day or two


A 20*58 beet field and a 26*68 carrot field are currently needed to feed this many cows without having to worry about them starting to starve.
So 1160 tiles for beetroots and 1768 tiles reserved for carrots That's a lot of space to need in itself
That's 3 beets and 1 beetroot leaf / 3 carrots per tile harvested.
That is 1160 beetroot leaves, 3480 beets and fucking 5304 carrots
8784 individual units of food.
Sounds suuper fun

And that's not mentioning the like, 4 hours needed to harvest, replant and trough it all

The whole lot of trough material amounts to 8784 individual clicks that are required by the player to get their harvest into the trough. But that's just the troughing process alone.
This number of clicks doesn't include the replanting process, the time needed to pick up the items from the floor, clicks to drink water between harvests, etc.

Now, 8784 units of food. A food trough holds 2000 units.
4.4 troughs of food in the end of it all.
But do not fear you eager farmers, you. (!)
In just 2 days time, you get to do it all over again!

Why the fuck wouldn't people want to bot that process?

It's just insanely tedious to keep cows alive, and even if you're not doing cheese, keeping cows for their backpack storage can add up to a lot of time required to just keep them fed