New things for the shop that aren't P2W. Open Dialogue.

[cyrus9586]

Looking at ways to help the devs continue being able to work as much as possible I wanted to list off a few things that can be added to the shop that would NOT impact gameplay.

First lets take the ability to put images on shields etc and put that behind the verification or Sub fee. Maybe toss in the ability to add any imagery to needing a sub as well. More incentive to spend 7$. Game loses nothing really important.

Now let's talk shirts. We have hats how about shirts? Now let's talk shirts. REAL shirts. There are a ton of places you can get T-shirts made and sell them through said sites. I have heard great things about theyetee as they handle all the shipping etc but I don't know how much the designer etc make.

Let's keep this ball rolling here. What are some things that the current game has that you could toss behind the sub that wouldn't impact gameplay or some things you would personally buy from the shop that can be made in bulk order cheap.
Foam stone axes or B12s, Coffee cups, Mouse pads, anything that can be procured on the cheap with easy shipping that the devs could start selling to help fund working full time on HnH.

How about just a straight up Donate Button in the shop?

So lets keep in mind the spirit of this post so
1. Any suggestions should not impact actual gameplay. So no paying for better stats, skills, items etc.
2. If it is a physical item make sure it would be cheap or at least sell a lot of them.

[Orphic]

Cosmetic Outfit
Cosmetic Furneture
Cosmetic Mount Skin

[Divicid]

Looking at ways to help the devs continue being able to work as much as possible I wanted to list off a few things that can be added to the shop that would NOT impact gameplay.

First lets take the ability to put images on shields etc and put that behind the verification or Sub fee. Maybe toss in the ability to add any imagery to needing a sub as well. More incentive to spend 7$. Game loses nothing really important.

Now let's talk shirts. We have hats how about shirts? Now let's talk shirts. REAL shirts. There are a ton of places you can get T-shirts made and sell them through said sites. I have heard great things about theyetee as they handle all the shipping etc but I don't know how much the designer etc make.

Let's keep this ball rolling here. What are some things that the current game has that you could toss behind the sub that wouldn't impact gameplay or some things you would personally buy from the shop that can be made in bulk order cheap.
Foam stone axes or B12s, Coffee cups, Mouse pads, anything that can be procured on the cheap with easy shipping that the devs could start selling to help fund working full time on HnH.

How about just a straight up Donate Button in the shop?

So lets keep in mind the spirit of this post so
1. Any suggestions should not impact actual gameplay. So no paying for better stats, skills, items etc.
2. If it is a physical item make sure it would be cheap or at least sell a lot of them.

Well jorb stated in his Stream 2 days ago that they are not making that much on the shop, like they only got 22 sold units of the "Make Haven Great Again", and that is no real surprise. There is not a real base for selling cosmetic items in this game, people like advantages, but what sort of advantages that does not impact the game too much?

In all honesty, i don't mind spending money on a game, and paying for an advantage. Because i value my time, and i can afford it. Paying for a 7$ subscription is nothing. I could spend 100$ on this game a month for benefits too food, fishing, wood chopping, whatever, maybe tools, like they had in Salem? But im not going to buy a hat that does nothing for me, an axe that chops 2x faster than usual, sure. A fishing rod that catches fishes faster, absolutly, anything that reduces the grind in this game is worthwhile.

And sure i can accept people don't want this to be Pay 2 win. But if you want to monetize the game, and not having it as Pay 2 win, then put up a 15$ monthly subscription. But then also see the amount of users decline. The point being, if you want to make a profit of a game, and still have the core free, you have to offer the few people who acctually pay for the game some sort of incentive, some sort of benefit or advantage. Else you will not earn a dime. Cosmetic is not the way to go, and people who does not PAY for this game have to accept the fact that it is the people acctually paying for the game, does it too have an advantage, like it or not, it does put money in the pockets of the devs. So on the top of my head i suggest;

- Keep the game free
- Pay for faster study time
- Pay for a FEP advantage
- Pay for tools that lowers grinding
- Pay for free ways to up your energy without food
- Pay for a "base" pack of seeds
- Pay for being able to inherit 80% of your ancestors, instead of burying for 60%
- Pay for better soil to reduce growing time of plants
- Pay for earning experience

Nothing is game breaking, but accept the fact that people are not going to pay 100$ for some cosmetic items. But if someone spends 200$ on this sort of things a month, then the developers already compensated the 220$ they earned from the "Make haven great again". And sure, people will not like it, then quit. But in all honestly, you playing a free game, and the people paying for it, are the ones creating the incentive for the devlopers to add new content, and try to improve a game, that for now, give them nothing.

EDIT:

Just wanted to add, in mobile games, where you have the possibility to spend money for advantages it's around 5% of the users that contribute more then 60-80% of the total income. And that is the same for most games these days that implement a game with a webshop. It's not the majority that keeps those games going, it's the minority who are ready to devote their money, too save themselves time and do what they consider to be fun. You need to embrace those, not the poor Russians and Ukraine people or whatever that can't afford spending 7$ a month on a game. Those are the fillers of the world, who makes it "intresting" but they sure are not the core base for the developers to monetize on.

[cyrus9586]

Cosmetic Outfit
Cosmetic Furneture
Cosmetic Mount Skin

I'm not a 100% fan of the outfit idea unless they can't be gilded. Don't want to give someone a free suit of something to be gilded right off the bat but I do like the idea of a merchant outfit or a knight outfit that changes how armor looks. How about new skins for current armor?
Furniture same thing just new skins maybe? How about buy an outhouse? Just pure deco there doesn't do anything else but is there kind of thing.
And on Mount skins do you mean the ability to mount skins on the wall or change what your horse looks like a la the horrid DLC for Oblivion? Either way love the idea for HnH. Let's get the bronies up here and let them have a Pegasuses as long as it's just in looks.

Great ideas. OH how about house paints/stains etc? You make your house out of any wood etc and then if you hate how it looks just use pigments and an item from the shop to make a stain to make the wood look how ever you want? Can also do this for clay for bricks as well. Would mean more custom art on the ground etc.

Divicid I do not disagree with your post. The point of this post was to snowball some new ideas that could help. I am actually all for going to a more P2W or sub rate for the game but I don't think the loss of player base will make up for a lot of it. We do have numbers right now but take away bots and people just dicking around and it goes way down. In all honesty I'm putting myself in a bind to pay 22$ this month as I live paycheck to paycheck. I had to quit when Hafen was released what they had a limited play time as I knew I would never get anything done as I am the type of person who WILL spend 4 days looking for the "perfect" place to build a base...and im not talking about Q of nodes near by either just the look of it. I do appreciate your feedback though. I think if the devs wanted to go there I would actually support them even if I had to leave again. I would support going on steam (as many of us would) and putting a 15$ price tag just to play the free model.

Edit: I also wanted to add that most of the psychical items I mentioned with the mindset that there are websites that will produce them as needed and sell them. So you don't need to order 500 of them then sell 10 then get stuck with 490 in your garage that never sell. I was trying to think of websites etc that as each one sells they produce it and send it. I will admit right now I have VERY LITTLE experience with any websites like that outside of knowing they exist so if they give very little profits etc I apologize and I can remove those from the idea list.

[Divicid]

And another thing, raise the cost for the subscription, it's only 7$ that's ridicilous when other games are charging around 15$ each. If you think that people can not afford the extra cost, then think again. The people who are not subscribing because the cost is too high, will not even subscribe if you put it at 5$, but the people who can afford to pay 7$ a month is going to be able to pay 15$ a month. If you even lose 10% of the subs, you are still going to earn more money...

Having subs for a game is a dying art though, and in all honesty, it's not very progressive. But if you going to use it, then atleast make it a reasonable amount.

[Divicid]

Sorry for posting so much in this thread, but i feel really passionate for it.

But the bottomline is this

Have the game free

But for people who are willing to pay money for it, make sure you reduce their grind.

If a free player spend 24 hours doing something, then it should take 8 hours for a paying player to do the same.
That way this game is not a pay2win game anymore, it's about dedication, and commitment to the game. Some people commit their time, other their money.
Any advantage i can get from this game, that reduces the grind time, is something i am ready to spend money on, and im sure other people will too. Just like the system you have right now with the "convenience" buff, but expand on it with the help of tools, and other things. That is how you going to monetize on this game, without hurting the playerbase.

And also, whatever you do, im probaly going to play this game, if it's free or if it costs 50$ a month. So make your own decision, have me play the game for 0$ a month, or give the paying players something back and we will help fill your pockets. It does not matter, keep the game free and live in your socialist dreams, or earn some bucks.

[ninja_yodeler]

And another thing, raise the cost for the subscription, it's only 7$ that's ridicilous when other games are charging around 15$ each. If you think that people can not afford the extra cost, then think again. The people who are not subscribing because the cost is too high, will not even subscribe if you put it at 5$, but the people who can afford to pay 7$ a month is going to be able to pay 15$ a month. If you even lose 10% of the subs, you are still going to earn more money...

Having subs for a game is a dying art though, and in all honesty, it's not very progressive. But if you going to use it, then atleast make it a reasonable amount.

Plz don't raise subs my countries exchange rate makes $7 of their currency bad enough as it is.

On topic though real life merch seems like it would be far more work and responsibility for 2 people than they'd want to deal with. However more ingame cosmetics would always be great. Specifically ones that don't take up slots for things that you actually need. That or, as was mentioned. Different skins. ( even though users can technically do that, who doesn't want the OG Jorb touch)

[cyrus9586]

And another thing, raise the cost for the subscription, it's only 7$ that's ridicilous when other games are charging around 15$ each. If you think that people can not afford the extra cost, then think again. The people who are not subscribing because the cost is too high, will not even subscribe if you put it at 5$, but the people who can afford to pay 7$ a month is going to be able to pay 15$ a month. If you even lose 10% of the subs, you are still going to earn more money...

Having subs for a game is a dying art though, and in all honesty, it's not very progressive. But if you going to use it, then atleast make it a reasonable amount.

Again will not disagree entirely here. What about the DCUO model? Free members get VERY little they can do. You can buy more bank slots, bigger wallets, more power sets etc and DLC/Expansions. XP boosts etc. Spend 15$ total in one go and then you get a premium account(verified for us) that reduce the restrictions but you still get blocked out of 90% of the game. Then you can buy a subscription that unlocks everything as long as you pay monthly. Now you look at the forums for DCUO(havent in a while so this is dated info) and its ALL lit up with people complaining that the powers behind the pay walls are OP compared to the free ones. BUT people proved the free powers are almost always better then the paid ones. I'm getting off topic here.


I agree that a sub model may not be the right move but we can merge the two ideas here. You can buy individual upgrades based on what you need.
Perm LP boost tier 1 $5
Perm Convenience boost tier 1 $5
FEP boost tier 1 $5
then tier 2 is another $5 each. Or make it 2$ but add even more options then. Now thats 30$ and when I say perm I mean for THAT world. OR you can spend $15 a month and get it all and maybe some other minor perks. Some will say "well I only want the LP boosts." so they will spend $10 and thats it but some may just say "Screw it lets just Sub for the months."

I would even go as far and say they should add a lifetime option. So few games offer it and I know people that will only sub to games that offer it. $300 now and NEVER pay again.

And I understand the passion I want to see this game last the rest of my life its so unique even when I hate it I love it. But I have the same boat many do and this is why I agree with you. I don't have 12+ hours a day to dedicate to this game. I work 4 jobs. I toss in what time I can. So again I agree with what you're saying. I would, if i had the money, would gladly sink 100$ into the game now if it meant I could get done what I need to get done faster. Not to screw others over but to just keep up.

[2d0x]

...I could spend 100$ on this game a month for benefits too food, fishing, wood chopping, whatever, maybe tools, like they had in Salem? But im not going to buy a hat that does nothing for me...

I think so too. Cosmetics - this is good, but it is a trifle, and does not promise big profits. I suppose, for the resurrection of a character people would be willing to pay more. Imbalance? Of course, but expensive. Perhaps, with penalties (temporary or permanent).

[cyrus9586]

Plz don't raise subs my countries exchange rate makes $7 of their currency bad enough as it is.

On topic though real life merch seems like it would be far more work and responsibility for 2 people than they'd want to deal with. However more ingame cosmetics would always be great. Specifically ones that don't take up slots for things that you actually need. That or, as was mentioned. Different skins. ( even though users can technically do that, who doesn't want the OG Jorb touch)

Right now I think we are spit balling back and forth these as optional. Like Divicid said LEAVE THE GAME FREE but add these options. I agree on this. Leave it free and unlimited but let us have extras that we can get. I am more for cosmetic and less game impacting myself but I can't disagree that the added pay options wouldn't be nice.

I think so too. Cosmetics - this is good, but it is a trifle, and does not promise big profits. I suppose, for the resurrection of a character people would be willing to pay more. Imbalance? Of course, but expensive. Perhaps, with penalties (temporary or permanent).

Well heres the thing...With burial+skull+state funeral you damn near get a revive. its what a total of 80%? If they bring back the belief system then you could add even more depend on change/tradition slider. Why not just break the mold and let us pay 15$ for a 100% one time use inherit bonus? We wouldn't lose anything else but gear and that can be replaced or maybe gotten back?