Getting better stats when you use them

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Getting better stats when you use them

Postby avros008 » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:14 pm

It will be better if our stats will better when we using them.

For example when we shoot animals, our marksmanship stat can be increase.
dafels wrote:the midges are not the problem,
you're the problem
User avatar
avros008
 
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:57 am
Location: Türkiye!

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby Ysh » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:16 pm

avros008 wrote:It will be better if our stats will better when we using them.

For example when we shoot animals, our marksmanship stat can be increase.

Bot.
Kaios wrote:Spice Girls are integral to understanding Ysh's thought process when communicating, duly noted.

I have become victory of very nice Jordan Coles Contest! Enjoy my winning submit here if it pleasures you.
User avatar
Ysh
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:43 am
Location: Chatting some friends on forum

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby jorb » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:19 pm

Incentivizes performing the action for the purpose of levling, rather than for actual use. Ugly, and bot-friendly.
"The psychological trials of dwellers in the last times will be equal to the physical trials of the martyrs. In order to face these trials we must be living in a different world."

-- Hieromonk Seraphim Rose
User avatar
jorb
 
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:07 am
Location: Here, there and everywhere.

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby shubla » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:26 pm

jorb wrote: bot-friendly.

Current system is not particularly bad for botting either.
Image
I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
User avatar
shubla
 
Posts: 13043
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby Ysh » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:27 pm

shubla wrote:
jorb wrote: bot-friendly.

Current system is not particularly bad for botting either.

Time gate hurts bot, even if bot can still be use.
Kaios wrote:Spice Girls are integral to understanding Ysh's thought process when communicating, duly noted.

I have become victory of very nice Jordan Coles Contest! Enjoy my winning submit here if it pleasures you.
User avatar
Ysh
 
Posts: 5953
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:43 am
Location: Chatting some friends on forum

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby beardhat » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:02 am

In one system, a player has to wait, and a bot has to wait, that is our current system.

In your proposed system, a bot can simply run forever and gain as much LP or attributes as you leave it running, while a human has to eat, drink, piss, work, sleep, and various other things that hinders them from competing with a bot.

The current system is bot friendly in that you automatically put curios in your study, or various other tasks which as of the latest updates you can do without a bot and still automate it somewhat (Thanks for auto drinking jorb), but player progression between a bot and a human is pretty much on par thanks to the curio/hunger system, and unless they can completely create a dynamic player progression system which isn't awful, thats the best we're gonna get.
beardhat
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:50 pm

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby Granger » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:19 am

jorb wrote:Incentivizes performing the action for the purpose of levling, rather than for actual use. Ugly, and bot-friendly.

You actually did that with hunting and combat abilities, forcing us to kill stuff so we get the moves needed to kill what we actually want to kill.

And currently we have something that incentivizes performing an action for the purpose of levling something completely unrelated: I find it a bit strange that you can digest through cupboards full of curiosities and then spontaneously be master of something which 10 seconds ago you havn't had the slightest clue about.

Maybe there is some middle ground where a character would absorb 'theory' (development potential) by studying curiosities and then gains useable proficiency (stats) in that area through 'practice' (while the theory is fresh in mind, with the memory of it fading if not put to use).

Pure practice would also build proficciency, but way slower (as it is hard to figure out stuff without a clue about what could be going on with it): fresh spawns would in the beginning start their path into character development, while later speed up their progress by studying curiosities related to the areas they currently practice. So both extremes will be pointless: only doing things (as the gains would be marginal) wouldn't be worth it, as would spending the whole life in the library (figuratively: only shoveling curios into the study).

Curiosities would idealy need to be made specific to certain knowledge areas for this, but my gut feeling is that this could be made to work nicely for 'normal' characters, giving them an organic feel of development - while at the same time fuck up the usual ways to create specialized (throwaway or not) alts.
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9263
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby ricky » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:22 am

Granger wrote:
jorb wrote:Incentivizes performing the action for the purpose of levling, rather than for actual use. Ugly, and bot-friendly.

You actually did that with hunting and combat abilities, forcing us to kill stuff so we get the moves needed to kill what we actually want to kill.

And currently we have something that incentivizes performing an action for the purpose of levling something completely unrelated: I find it a bit strange that you can digest through cupboards full of curiosities and then spontaneously be master of something which 10 seconds ago you havn't had the slightest clue about.

Maybe there is some middle ground where a character would absorb 'theory' (development potential) by studying curiosities and then gains useable proficiency (stats) in that area through 'practice' (while the theory is fresh in mind, with the memory of it fading if not put to use).

Pure practice would also build proficciency, but way slower (as it is hard to figure out stuff without a clue about what could be going on with it): fresh spawns would in the beginning start their path into character development, while later speed up their progress by studying curiosities related to the areas they currently practice. So both extremes will be pointless: only doing things (as the gains would be marginal) wouldn't be worth it, as would spending the whole life in the library (figuratively: only shoveling curios into the study).

Curiosities would idealy need to be made specific to certain knowledge areas for this, but my gut feeling is that this could be made to work nicely for 'normal' characters, giving them an organic feel of development - while at the same time fuck up the usual ways to create specialized (throwaway or not) alts.



I've thought about ideas like this often, and I think it would work well. Having stat gains(both FEP stats and LP stats) "bought" through food/lp, but "earned" or "enabled" through use would be interesting.

I also think enabling skills through a LP purchase as well as an ingame task would also be interesting and potentially engaging
Have a question? Need help? Tired of people asking questions? Haven and Hearth Wiki.
jorb wrote:Ideally the game should play itself.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
User avatar
ricky
 
Posts: 1457
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:00 am

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby VDZ » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:25 am

Granger wrote:
jorb wrote:Incentivizes performing the action for the purpose of levling, rather than for actual use. Ugly, and bot-friendly.

You actually did that with hunting and combat abilities, forcing us to kill stuff so we get the moves needed to kill what we actually want to kill.


Yeah, I also feel this system is very much at odds with the general style of Haven. You two keep insisting we should see animals as more than walking meat and skin waiting to be butchered, but then you force us to kill countless animals to get basic stuff like a red restoration (I still don't have one) or even just IP-generating moves for a few unlucky people.

Granger wrote:(while the theory is fresh in mind, with the memory of it fading if not put to use).


No. Fuck that 'play more or lose your progress' shit. Players should never be forced to play by the system. (Yes, this is currently already the case for taming, steel and livestock, but those feel like a chore for that very reason.) Maybe fading if you do other stuff, but don't punish players for not playing.

Granger wrote:while at the same time fuck up the usual ways to create specialized (throwaway or not) alts.


Because that worked so well for the FEP system? People will just mass produce the required items for the alt they want to create. You can't say this kind of stuff helps against alts because it just doesn't work that way.
User avatar
VDZ
 
Posts: 2660
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:27 am

Re: Getting better stats when you use them

Postby Granger » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:00 am

VDZ wrote:
Granger wrote:(while the theory is fresh in mind, with the memory of it fading if not put to use).


No. Fuck that 'play more or lose your progress' shit. Players should never be forced to play by the system. (Yes, this is currently already the case for taming, steel and livestock, but those feel like a chore for that very reason.) Maybe fading if you do other stuff, but don't punish players for not playing.

Though was to deter from just eating curios without actually putting their potential to use, so obtaining theory is planned along actual things you plan to do to in the forseeable future to get away from simply vacuuming up everything in sight based on max LP/h/slot.

Granger wrote:while at the same time fuck up the usual ways to create specialized (throwaway or not) alts.


Because that worked so well for the FEP system? People will just mass produce the required items for the alt they want to create. You can't say this kind of stuff helps against alts because it just doesn't work that way.

The difference would be that one wouldn't be able to scroll abilities up to a certain value, klick 'buy' and be done with it.
FEP on the other hand allows boundless (and with salt instant) raise of attributes through an unrelated action (eating).
⁎ Mon Mar 22, 2010 ✝ Thu Jan 23, 2020
User avatar
Granger
 
Posts: 9263
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Next

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests