Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby Smoopadoop » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:28 am

Think back to any real-world, historical, or religious stories you may have heard, in which a small town is besieged by a large insurmountable army, but somehow the tiny town comes out on top.
So, how do they do it? The insurmountable force is covered in armor and weapons, while the villagers have naught but cloth and pitchforks.
Well, there are some things that people are weak to, no matter how strong or armed they are. Some things just can't be gotten through by brute strength. So, here are some ideas.

Part one: General Ideas
Idea number one:
Traps, in which the effect only happens when the attacking force does something aggressive, or something which only happens when they are intent on destruction.
Here's an example. Source: Conan the Barbarian. Sorry for the shit quality, but this is the only video with JUST the trap scene.

As you can see, the raider here only dies because he was trying to kill someone. So, perhaps, the trigger for the trap can be when a wall is being besieged, a building is being bashed, or maybe dummy players can be built to be triggers too.

Idea number two:
Traps which need to be activated by the defending force, requiring them to actually be there to defend their asses.

Seriously, just push a rock down a hill. Levers-and-fulcrums could be installed into boulders, causing them to move in a direction, and then continue moving based on land slope. As it moves down, it gains momentum. Momentum allows it to move up dirt slopes too, but this lowers momentum a great amount. This is to prevent tiny 1-unit dirt hills from stopping boulders, but not allow them to clear cliffs. A boulder should also change direction when the slope direction changes, unless its momentum is powerful enough to clear that. Hopefully you can understand my shitty diagram:
Image
When the boulder hits someone, they take a large-ish amount of damage, calculated by the size and the velocity of the boulder.

These traps could be other things, such as pushing spike-walls, hanging up heavy things and then cutting the rope, pushing barrels full of harmful liquids, trapdoors into the next mine level (and onto spikes). The possibilities are endless!

Idea number three:
Traps which the attacking party needs to actually SEE.
Its their own damn fault if they walk into it. Yes, I know there are many flaws with this, namely minimap markers, alarms, custom client magick, etc.

Part two: Guidelines
So, from my sleep-deprived pondering, here's how to make traps kinda balanced:
  • Traps must only be able to be used defensively.
  • Traps must only be able to be used by the defending party.
  • Traps must only work when the defending party is being attacked by the attacking party.
  • Traps must not disadvantage the defending party for being smaller or less developed than the attacking party, but it must not make them completely indestructible. The most effective way to do this is to make traps effective regardless of their quality.
  • Traps must not be "set and forget"
  • This means that either one defender must be online to activate the trap, or one attacker must make some kind of offensive move to activate the trap upon themselves.

Part three: Possible ways to implement
This is a list of items and buildings which could be added.

Lever-and-Fulcrum.
The lever-and-fulcrum is a building which can be built on an empty tile, or on the same tile as a Boulder
The lever-and-fulcrum can only be used when a boulder is on its tile. To achieve this, it may be built on a boulder, or a small boulder can be placed onto it.
The lever-and-fulcrum faces in a direction. When used, it will push its boulder in that direction, which will then begin to roll forwards down slopes, as explained in Part One.
When a rolling boulder strikes a hearthling, it deals damage based on its size and velocity, as explained in Part One.
When a boulder comes to a stop, it continues being a boulder, and is thus an obstacle.
The lever and fulcrum would be relatively cheap to build, using a few wood blocks and boards.
Levers-and-fulcrums are also able to push barrels. This will become especially useful with the next point:

Lye.
Lye is a highly basic substance used to make soaps. In high concentrations, it can burn the shit out of you.
Lye can be made by putting hardwood ash into rainwater.
In the game, lye may be made in the same way as tanning fluid, by putting ash into water buckets or barrels.
Lye's concentration may be increased by putting it in a cauldron and boiling excess water out of it. This will lower its amount, but increase its concentration, until it hits a maximum concentration (i.e. saturated)
Lye barrels may be placed in levers-and-fucrums, and if a rolling lye barrel strikes a hearthling, it will burn them and lower their stats, amount depending on the lye's concentration.
Other things may be used like this, such as hot sand or boiling water.
Lye may also be used to create soap, perhaps by using linseed oil. (I think? Veg oils work instead of animal fats in soap-making right?)

Murder-Holes.
In castle architecture, murder hole is a hole in a wall or roof through which you can throw heavy things to murder the shit out of anyone on the other side.
In haven and hearth, a murder hole can be a special wall segment built into palisades or brick walls, which will allow rolling boulders or barrels to pass through, without letting hearthlings through.

Boiling fucking oil.
Oil-pots may be built onto wall segments, and filled with liquids.
From the inside of the wall, the pot can be made to tip its contents onto anybody on the other side, in an area of effect.
Various liquids may be used, but the most effective would be:
  • Boiling water
  • Burning linseed oil
  • Hot sand
  • Lye

There are more things which could be implemented here, I see these as the most effective.
For other things which may be implemented, check part one.


TL;DR: Traps should even the playing ground when a small group is being besieged by a more powerful group, but not make them indestructible.

Please give your own ideas on the topic, so we can further refine this to be balanced and not shitty.
MODS ARE ASLEEP POST SMALL BART
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Smoopadoop
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Somewhere in Australia, probably.

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby viznew » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:32 am

player triggered traps does sound awsome (rolling logs, tar poured out then lit to makw fire walls, and the mentioned) +1
ImageImage
User avatar
viznew
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:34 am
Location: siletzia

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby Smoopadoop » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:34 am

How didn't I think of logs?!

They should totally work in a lever.
MODS ARE ASLEEP POST SMALL BART
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Smoopadoop
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Somewhere in Australia, probably.

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby azrid » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:42 am

https://youtu.be/G2VQCzy3WOM?t=1m18s
This is pretty cool trap
Image
Image
User avatar
azrid
 
Posts: 3093
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:33 pm

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby Onep » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:28 pm

I love traps
“We still, alas, cannot forestall it-
This dreadful ailment's heavy toll;
The spleen is what the English call it,
We call it simply, Russian soul.”

An idea to consider: Tedium, a Feature.
Do you like Onep? Do you think he'd look good in green? www.Onep4mod.com
Jorb hates me. :\
User avatar
Onep
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:59 pm
Location: Walwus

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby Onep » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:29 pm

But is it really a trap if you walk into it knowingly?
“We still, alas, cannot forestall it-
This dreadful ailment's heavy toll;
The spleen is what the English call it,
We call it simply, Russian soul.”

An idea to consider: Tedium, a Feature.
Do you like Onep? Do you think he'd look good in green? www.Onep4mod.com
Jorb hates me. :\
User avatar
Onep
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:59 pm
Location: Walwus

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby Smoopadoop » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:35 am

Well, it would be good if traps would trick their victims rather than wait for them to knowingly walk in.
MODS ARE ASLEEP POST SMALL BART
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
Smoopadoop
 
Posts: 390
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:15 am
Location: Somewhere in Australia, probably.

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby viznew » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:07 pm

Smoopadoop wrote:Well, it would be good if traps would trick their victims rather than wait for them to knowingly walk in.


there can be multi types of traps

Hidden
these traps are weak but use the stealth of the maker to hide (can see if perc higher then the stealth used to make, like scents)
hole in ground with spikes covered with dirt, trip wire


Plain sight
these traps are visable and hit harder
log/boulder attached to wall when triggered rolls out from wall few spaces, boiling oil on wall


Triggered sight
these traps only visable when triggered
tar poured out and covered with dirt once lit moves along tar line, pile of feathers if lit makes toxic smoke
ImageImage
User avatar
viznew
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:34 am
Location: siletzia

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby sMartins » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:52 pm

I would like to remember that this game has no physics at all and probably will never have.
I'd hardly call anything the Bible of our times » special thanks to MagicManICT
I only logged in to say this sentence. by neeco » 30 Oct 2018, 02:57
Default Client, Best Client!
User avatar
sMartins
 
Posts: 2851
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:21 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Traps, but not in a shit OP way.

Postby beardhat » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:06 am

Just let me trap chests and put them out in the middle of the forest ¦]
beardhat
 
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:50 pm

Next

Return to Critique & Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Semrush [Bot] and 114 guests