Mortal Reminder

[Sevenless]

I'd actually missed that comment, good calls on that one Nooby. Unless we're talking some kind of "medic" activity that involves notable character investment, but even then I think that's a bit ambitious given haven's current combat system and wound quasi-realism.

Take out the "sprucecap penalty" entirely and war would be interesting. Ideally, if you tweaked the system around death being less penalizing to non-warrior (I've been talked down from not penalizing, at least the death wound could be actively worked on so no one could say the game was unplayable for them) it shouldn't be the end of the world for a beginner. If the penalties were % base, and something on the order of 20% for non-combat stats a newbie could continue to function despite death, while a developed character would need to care about it.

That said, to make war less abusable I'd think we'd need to add in border length penalties (encouraging rounder kingdoms instead of kingdom snakes), and only being able to declare war on kingdoms "touching" your border cairns. Aggressive kingdoms would obviously expand out to declare war on neighbours, but there should be some limit to how much they can snake.

However, permadeath pvp makes haven pvp both appealing only to a notably small niche, and also an activity that can't be engaged in frequently due to the costs of preparation time.

This game will never succeed to have decent amount of players until a balance between death penalty / stat grind and pvp is not found, pvp is locked to only small part of community right now that can play more than few hours every day and grind like an autist. But is a important feature like in every sandbox/mmorpg game. Permadeath is too hardcore for most of the community to handle, but it also brings some meaning in death. I think it brings more bad to the game player count, pvp activity wise, than good.

I know quite a few people think this (types that tend to keep quieter since pvpers dominate the forums usually), but do you think this proposed system offers that? What flaws do you see?

I don't think we could simply remove permadeath without replacing it. Which is why "lets try not permadeath" needs more conversation.

[dafels]

The game would be way more fun if it would be turned into base raid&destruction/territory/resource war oriented pvp and would be more about gear and industry production - full loot pvp in which casuals could even play competitively without having to spend months again to grind up a character after dying to a shitty gank like it is now. I don't know a good idea how to make death meaningful in this system, but making your character unable to pvp for some time somehow and loosing all your gear which would matter more could be meaningful I think.
Removing permadeath would fix a great issue that haven has had from since the beginning - alt issue, you could have a miner/farmer and everything on a single character and that would make the game way more casual and less of a job that you don't need to grind alts for everything anymore.
A seperate server without permadeath could be fun I guess. I stopped playing this game after world 9, it was like a fucking full time job for me before to keep up with other pvper's autism and now I much more prefer to play games that is more casual - hop on, have some fun, log off and forget about it.

[Sevenless]

The game would be way more fun if it would be turned into base raid&destruction/territory/resource war oriented pvp and would be more about gear and industry production - full loot pvp in which casuals could even play competitively without having to spend months again to grind up a character after dying to a shitty gank like it is now. I don't know a good idea how to make death meaningful in this system, but making your character unable to pvp for some time somehow and loosing all your gear which would matter more could be meaningful I think.
Removing permadeath would fix a great issue that haven has had from since the beginning - alt issue, you could have a miner/farmer and everything on a single character and that would make the game way more casual and less of a job that you don't need to grind alts for everything anymore.
A seperate server without permadeath could be fun I guess. I stopped playing this game after world 9, it was like a fucking full time job for me before to keep up with other pvper's autism and now I much more prefer to play games that is more casual - hop on, have some fun, log off and forget about it.

I really doubt you could legitimately compete as a casual in haven, but you could say tag along with your kingdom's army and have some fun knowing you risk _____ static penalty for dying and still be helpful. I would be willing to join into pvp personally in those types of situations. I play a lot of pvp games outside the crafting side of games. But I'm not raising a second character after my main just so I can go do it in haven. If I want to kill stuff, why grind a warrior in haven when I can be shooting someone in PU:B within 3 minutes? My entire argument around penalizing non-combat stats not at all or less so is so that non-pure pvp players can join in on the gameplay with less investment They won't beat hardcore pvpers, but they will provide help to their kingdom's hardcore pvpers AND give more targets for enemy kingdoms. More people in pvp is good for everyone, so long as people who truly focus pvp keep an edge. And with the combat system being complex enough to require practice, and the stat system emphasizing crafting vs combat stats I think that's doable within haven.