Hunger Levels and Eating

[jorb]

People who know the game far better than I do inform me that the optimal eating scheme consists of eating solely at 300% food efficacy, i.e. when "Ravenous". I don't dispute this, but I'm curious as to why, more precisely, that is so. Prima facie it would seem -- and that was our reasoning in implementation -- that you would get more FEPs per unit of time while eating at the less hungry levels.

Is it that food is a limiting factor?
Is it that tableware is a limiting factor somehow?
Is it that the satiations somehow play into it?
Is it that y'all have so much salt that you can always and easily stay at 300%?

It seems to me that if, indeed, it is correct to eat at and only at 300% food efficacy, then something ought to change.

ITT: We explain why eating at 300% food efficacy is correct.

[jordancoles]

Hol' up

Turning on my pc

Edit: First of all, why the fuck wouldn't I want 100% extra gainz on every piece of food that I eat? Second, salt makes it incredibly easy to stay in the pink (magenta?) and third, bonfires and tables help a lot for hunger reduction

FEP boosts and satiations
With sub and a verified account you get 50% development bonus (I'm pretty sure they stack? 30% otherwise for subbing). With a high tier table you can get like + 30-60% FEP bonus from your table and chair setup. On top of this, you can get +25% "food" satiation and +25% in the food that you want, so that's another 50% boost to your FEP gainz.

Here is my outdated/damaged table


300% + 50% + 40% (roughly, from table buff) + 25% + 25% = 440%

440% gainz on each piece of cheese that you eat? It's pretty crazy tbh, but why would I waste the time I spent making cheese only to eat it at a 100% loss of potential FEP gainz?
It's better to eat on a low-hunger boosting table with a bonfire and alts standing around than it is to just eat through to 200%

Bonfires
Bonfires are heaven-sent. They reduce your hunger by quite a bit if you get a person with decent CHA to light the flames. It's a cool idea if used properly, but as it stands the meta is to just log on to as many accounts as your pc can handle and then to sit them around at tables like so.
Also, notice the difference in the hunger modifier now than the bonfire is lit. 18% versus the previous 28% hunger gains per food item.


Salt
It's no secret that people make alts for ninjaing nodes, but salt is one of the easiest ones to do this for. You get 3 pieces per harvest, reharvest is every 3 days, and it's much less contested than ice would be.

Throw some straw dolls/a bronze steed/a sand castle on to some random alt and in a day or two you can buy 20 cooking and head out into the world. Place a hearthfire in the general vacinity of the salt node and log out right beside the salt pool
Eg.


Tbh, I'd like to see the rare supernodes shuffle around the map every time that they are harvested or something because it's much too easy to claim and camp them at the moment. As the world goes on, competition for the resources lowers and people are left with cupboards of salt/rock crystals, etc. and when there is competition, people are just on a rush to wall the node and then sit on it for the rest of the world

Anyways, tldr; salt is easy to get, bonfires help to reduce hunger by a lot, FEP bonuses from tables/satiations/subtime help a ton and 300% is easy to stay in if you're willing to put in a bit of effort beforehand in your setup phase.

Also, while we talking about food and the feasting system, I would like to say that I fucking hate satiations. They are not fun. They are tedium. Also, if done correctly, they add very large bonuses to your FEP gainz. I will admit that I do maximize my FEPs for the best possible gains, but it is no where near fun and the gains themselves are pretty OP anyways.

[Sevenless]

Tableware hunger bonus is the issue. It's so powerful that food becomes a limiting factor. Well, food and tablewear being worn out. The secondary problem is that 300% is such a gigantic bonus. Rather than making 3x as much food and 3x as much drink to combat satiations, you can just create insane tablewear and use huge FEP food to reduce their wear and your hunger gain.

I'm already running into this after a month in with meh quality tablewear giving me 40% hunger mod. The higher your quality and investment into the table gets, the further down the hunger bar you can slip reliably. Right now I rarely eat over 200%, and I'm still scrub tier.

Let some of the big boys show you their setups. I mostly learned this second hand from nooby and he claimed salt wasn't even required to abuse this. Only just starting to see the impact myself.

[jordancoles]

Tableware hunger bonus is the issue. It's so powerful that food becomes a limiting factor. Well, food and tablewear being worn out. The secondary problem is that 300% is such a gigantic bonus. Rather than making 3x as much food and 3x as much drink to combat satiations, you can just create insane tablewear and use huge FEP food to reduce their wear and your hunger gain.

I'm already running into this after a month in with meh quality tablewear giving me 40% hunger mod. The higher your quality and investment into the table gets, the further down the hunger bar you can slip reliably. Right now I rarely eat over 200%, and I'm still scrub tier.

Let some of the big boys show you their setups. I mostly learned this second hand from nooby and he claimed salt wasn't even required to abuse this. Only just starting to see the impact myself.

The Polish the Silver prayer helps a lot too. Once you've attained an insane table bonus, you can hold on to it for an incredibly long amount of time by simply repairing it whenever it is needed.

[Kaios]

One table to eat at:



One table for the charisma alt to sit at:



My tables aren't even the best I am almost certain some villages have the hunger mod down to 1% by now. Early game it's more efficient to eat at 300% because food is a limiting factor at first but also satiations are a large hindrance until you get the drinks to help reset them. However, it's also very difficult to not eat during the early game because you're doing so many tasks that require energy but that need to remain efficient is what makes players want to use alts for those menial tasks.

During the late game you can easily mass produce a lot more food so it's not that it is more efficient to eat at 300% but that it's so easy with bonuses to hunger mod. Why wouldn't you want to get the most possible FEPs out of the food you're eating?

For a long time I didn't have any salt until players stopped competing over it so much and I had no issues staying at the 300% level.

[qoonpooka]

FWIW I eat at 100% fairly often. I'm starved for bones and hide right now, which means I'm drowning in meat. Wine, beer, and tea provide massive harvests for my single character, and since I can't get salt, and the hunger bar only hits 300% when I've been gone for a couple of days, at least, I find that waiting for the 300% isn't worth it.

That said, once the 300% does roll around? I hit the hemp HARD and get VERY tactical about how much FEPs I can squeeze before I'm back in the 200% range.

When I'm just logging in to update crops, etc, I will instead work the top quarter of 200% over and over again.

I suspect, given the threads above, that this makes sense for sprucecaps, who have mountains of low quality food so the benefit of 300% just doesn't last long enough to be really worth it, and attribute ups are fairly common. Gorging yourself is a part of that life style. As my quality goes up and the multiplier starts to matter - or the food I'm eating starts to take work to produce (cheese is notorious for this, I hear), then I'll probably get pickier about it.

[Sevenless]

Unfortunately, I think satiations need to be simplified into consumed buffs (never becoming a penalty), and hunger as a concept needs to go entirely.

I was not originally of this position, but Nooby convinced me this current system does nothing but stat bloat factions while punishing newer/lower stat players at the same time. The quality grind in itself already empowers faction food eating, this system just compounds that, while satiations severly punish beginners before they can get all the drinks up and running.

[viznew]

personally if not eating at table must eat at 300% but at table feels like i can eat more freely (with a feasting setup(charimsa alt sat at best table and then you eat at decent table)) but still try to keep it at 200% at least, i do feel satiations chould be a bigger factor into it and hunger be reduced to effect it less, i kinda hate the fact for me to feel like im eating at my best i need a chrisma alt or others sat with me eating

[sMartins]

What if you could eat only a certain amount of food a day?
That will give you a well fed or overstuffed status that regen your energy.....and maybe satiations could be how much of a particular food you can it a day.....so you cannot eat just 10kg of cheese in a day. But to max your fep gain you should eat lot of different food. 1 meat, 1 cheese, etc...of course you should be able to eat a lot of common food to survive, but will not be efficient on fep.
Of course this system need a very intensive balancing thing.... also could help against pesky alts.
P.S. Well....probably it's the same thing we have now....lol , just get rid off satiations and make that you cannot it more of that food for that day.

[Sevenless]

Completely screws with the production mechanics haven has and makes the game even more of a "hurry up and wait" type game. Active production feels good to a degree, in a runescapy grind kind of way.

Potjeh and I have had discussions in C&I and it helped me come to the conclusion that stat gain after say 300 (about the point where hunting anything soloable becomes doable/trivial) should become exponentially harder. Enough so that a high end faction can power pound food into one guy and it won't result with 3k in multiple stats after a year. The hunger modifier of 300% is exaserbating this problem, but it definitely exists even without it.